cimorene | don't be surprised if somebody shoves back

We've finally reached a point in the racefail where all some people can do is stare in shock and feebly say things like "Duuuuuude."

vito_excalibur, in a comment here, sums up the "dude"ness handily with

John Ringo never acted like this! I was going to put my OH JOHN RINGO NO tag on my last post, and then refrained, because I didn't want to associate John Ringo with this behavior.

Scroll down in that post for links to Elizabeth Bear's try at crashing the helicopter of egomania, alight with the flames of self-pity, into the fail cruiseliner at the exact moment that it sailed over the edge of the Waterfall of Condescension at the end of the Racist River. Also for

delux_vivens's bottle of White Woman's Tears.

Rydra Wong, the queen of link collectors, summarises the entire imbroglio from its January inception here, because tl;dr shouldn't be an excuse.

There's that whole tone argument again that people like Elizabeth Bear keep tirelessly bringing up, no matter how many times it's dissected, explained, logically demolished and placed in its historical context. (Let me apologise in advance for the dumbness of this metaphor. I know it's dumb; I just don't have a better parable to hand. Feel free to correct me.)

When I was in kindergarten I had hair long enough to sit on that I wore to school in a braid most days. Little Timmy thought it was hilarious to pull my braid because he was an asshole. I told the teacher, but she first told me that she couldn't do anything if she didn't catch him in the act, and then she said "You take care of you, and I'll take care of Little Timmy." Nevermind that the only reason I was concerned with Little Timmy was that he was sneaking up behind me while I was trying to learn to read and pulling my hair - I was expected to mind my own business and presumably just shave my head. I cried to my mom. An authority figure had betrayed me: I didn't know what to do. "Handle it yourself," said my mom. "The next time he does it, step on his foot hard. He'll listen to you, anyway, when he wouldn't listen to the teacher." I was shocked because at the age of five I was already convinced that violence was bad, but the next time he came up and pulled my hair I was having a bad day. I turned around and stomped on his foot. He told the teacher, and instead of telling him to mind his own business, she told me not to do it again. But that's okay: I didn't have to. He never pulled my hair again.

Now, in the world of race debates, it doesn't work like that. Institutionalised racism is pelting people of colour with slings and arrows, sand in the face, foot-stomps, jostles, discrimination, violence, and a corrupt justice system all the time. As we've seen, calling racism out and meeting it head-on doesn't make it withdraw. For everyone who might see a glimmer of perspective, three more will jump in and accuse anti-racists of being emotional and savage or cowardly and nonexistent (yes, both at once - you wanted logic?). But you know what really doesn't work in the world of race debates either, Elizabeth Bear?

Cease-fire.

If fans of colour stop talking about race, that's saying: "Go ahead. Pull my hair."

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

here, because tl;dr shouldn't be an excuse

Absolutely. I've been working my way through these links and thinking about them a hell of a lot, and it's sort of daunting—I mean, I'm pretty much your typical clueless white girl, and there's so much to learn!—but that's exactly why I keep reading. tl;dr isn't much of an excuse, and it's privilege that wants to argue that it is.

Anyway, this comment goes by way of saying, I'm glad you keep posting links and talking about this. It sounds like you've been thinking about this stuff for longer than I have, and it's good to get your viewpoint.

I grew up in Alabama in a school district that was still desegregated by court-order during my tenure there, and proceeded to re-segregate when they were released around the year 2000 or thereabouts. So I've been aware of race issues my whole life. But it would be wrong to say I was really thinking about the issues until I started observing the debates in media fandom as an adult. The round associated with Hurricane Katrina is the first time I remember being seriously gobsmacked and mulling over it and thinking about racism... a lot. Days at a time. The voices of other fans have done more to get me thinking than a lifetime of observing real life. This says a lot of bad things about me and my privileged upbringing, but I also think it's a good argument for why it's important to keep these conversations going in fandom when they come up, and not just step back and say "Bored now" or "It's only the Internet!" We've heard so many important things being said. And I think the generational aspect to so many of these culture wars underlines that progress is happening albeit maddeningly slowly.

And I think the generational aspect to so many of these culture wars underlines that progress is happening albeit maddeningly slowly.

My father, good idealist that he is, gets really depressed sometimes with the lack of progress we've made, and I usually throw King's quote at him, about "the arc of history is long, but trends towards justice." I know I wasn't in a place three years ago where I could hear what's being said in these conversations, and, yes, that says terrible things about me and/or my upbringing, but—now three years on I'm listening. So hopefully there will be folks reached this time who were not, last time. But it is maddeningly slow, and I wish there were a way to have this conversations without, you know, forcing fans of color into the role of educator forced to teach Racism 101 over...and over...and over again to a hostile class... you know?

King was right, and it still works like that. I'm discovering, through some university-related research, that a lot of the exact same things people are talking about in this discussion were being said in the 18th century. It could be depressing, but it isn't. Because you can see that these ideas a) won't die, even when subsequent centuries tried really hard to quash these concepts and b) are, overall, winning, and always will be so long as people keep fighting for them.

The racism of today is nothing like the racism of fifty years ago. It's still ugly, bad, wrong, and all of that, but poor representation in fiction is a hell of a long way from lynchings and Jim Crow. Endlessly fighting these battles of words is exhausting, but it's progress from the physical violence of the 60s-era wars.

It's not fair, and it's important that white people who've made it past the first hump of the learning curve on this do their part to help drag their compatriots with them, but it's another stage in the battle for this progress, and it's a war that eventually, the Good People will win.

a lot of the exact same things people are talking about in this discussion were being said in the 18th century.

I... didn't know that. Whoa. Still, I'd take your optimistic analysis; I certainly hope we're moving forward, however slowly...

As for comparing today and the '50s... I don't know. My gut instinct is to agree with you, it does seem less overtly violent now than then. Though I don't want to deny the pain and horror of today's racism, either. I guess it's an argument for, as you say, dragging of compatriots... so that, god willing, our children will look at us someday the way I look at my parents, horrified, when I try to imagine that, no, really, Jim Crow was a fact of life for my dad in his childhood.

Yep, the kindergarden story is a great connecter to understanding some of this. Sometime you have to slap folks, on stop in thier toes, just to get thier attention.

True. Judging by the levels of outrage generated, the less polite your tone, the more attention you get!

I know I've have several of the core offenders on the pro side in this completely ignore my polite comments and advice. I think some folks have learned the lesson the hard way that, much like my kids, sometimes you have to shout to get someone attention. For many of us, POC especially, white folks who are full of their own self superiority and importance treat us as if we were invisible when they want to, without much effort. I wish it wasn't that way, I really do.

The idea that ignoring dissent is somehow a good or moral position for them is definitely out there: even when they acknowledge their opponents are not just trolls, someone can always talk as if stopping the discussion (so we can all "calm down", of course!) is somehow a virtue. It's the other side of the tone argument and one of the most poisonous parts of the privilege we've seen here - trying to make the people who disagree with them disappear, which is what this is all about, of course, at bottom. I bet they were patting themselves on the back for ignoring you instead of engaging in pointless debate or encouraging these people, or however they characterise it in their minds. It's really sickening.

Oh, this resonates in ways I can't even explain. Thanks!

don't be surprised if somebody shoves back

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