cimorene | OKAY WTAF

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Today, I was once again reduced to wordless rage!

SOME KID: But why was Jesus crucified?
TEACHER: Well, that was because, you see, the Jews didn't really like the way that Jesus said he was the son of God. The Jews were waiting for the Messiah who would save them and they didn't think the Messiah would be that kind of person, like an ordinary human being like Jesus.

ÖALSKDJJJJJ BBQ

This is the same one who jumped in to answer the clueless one who wanted to know what Jews think about "our" Jesus (mostly correctly but without any special knowledge of the respect he's sometimes been held in since his death) - so volubly that I wasn't able to get a word in in order to come out as a Jew.

Now, it's not that I couldn't rebut this. It's more that I barely know where to start, let alone how it's hard to formulate Swedish when overcome with rage. Also any comeback would have to be both brief, and simple enough to not seem weird in the second-grade context, if you see what I mean. What SHOULD I have said, calmly and in brief, to correct this misrepresentation for a second-grade audience?

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"Um...the Romans killed him, ma'am."

...Probably that would be the place to start actually. Although I can hear in my mind her saying "Of course that was because the Jews TOLD them to", but cooler heads have also provided the "Crucifixion was only for political crimes" follow-up so hopefully I can manage. Once I get Wax to rubber-stamp my translation.

ButbutbutbutTHE LOCALS DIDN'T HAVE THE POWER TO ORDER THE ROMAN OCCUPIERS TO FORMALLY EXECUTE SOMEONE JUST BECAUSE HE WAS ANNOYING.

"Think if a bunch of the Roma brought a petition to the Finnish parliament asking them to execute a popular Romani blogger because he was claiming that marriage to non-Roma is a good idea."

Yeah yeah yeah yeah or if the residents of Whiteclay requested the execution of the owners of the massive liquor store just outside their borders. THAT WOULD TOTALLY WORK.

I'm with Ann, that's what I was thinking, yes.

Though TBH I would also have been shaking in rage, and I'm not sure what I'd have said would have been appropriate for any audience at all.

I would also be very tempted to report that teacher for blatant antisemitism based on describing the twoo incidents, though I'm sure you're not in a position were doing that is possible/meaningful/easy.

What the FUCK though, seriously. For that to be her answer she has to have a serious problem.

Exactly, it really strikes me as racist, but I don't think she even realizes that she has problems, you know? I think she's grown up in the Bible belt and belongs to one of those 'revival' or more fundamentalist churches, because she sounds EXACTLY like the Methodists and Baptists I grew up around in Alabama on these issues. A priest told them the propaganda, presumably. She obviously believes that she's very knowledgable about judaism, and just completely is not at all. I'd think the girl in the next class over being a Jew might have caused her to reevaluate if she were straight-up bigoted, so I'm inclined to think that she doesn't have an inkling that these beliefs have an "ugly" side, as the Alabamians would say, or she would probably not repeat them freely with the girl's other teachers right there. Of course I could be giving her too much credit there, but I really get a read on her character as an earnest and well-meaning person.

I just dk, you know? Because it nauseates me and makes me so angry, and also makes me want to come out as a Jew in spite of all the problematic sub-issues that entails (Are you a REAL Jew?). But at the same time as I'd hope she would be shamed into reevaluating her opinions, I am also embarrassed at the mere thought that she would take coming out AFTER those conversations as an accusation of racism or attempt to catch her out. Wax pointed out that that is mostly in my head because it actually kind of is and considering how clueless she seems to be, she probably wouldn't even be capable of taking it that way. But I'm also worried about THAT: that it wouldn't affect her opinion at all, that she'd just completely fail to see the problem, which would be both hurtful and frustrating. And then, finally, I'm worried that telling her would actually cause her to like me less, or regard me differently, when she's actually the one teacher of the four that I think I've felt the most comfortable/rapport/clicking with.

Why yes, I did cry about this this afternoon.

*hugs* It sucks a LOT. D:

I think the repetition of easy to follow facts for the kids that the teacher can't argue with might be the least rage-inducing for you. I'd also go with "the Romans killed him" with a side order of "Pontius Pilate was a Roman" and "crucifixion was for political crimes". And if the teacher says something about Jesus being sent to Herod to (a) repeat he was killed by the Romans and (b) arrested and killed in Judea (under direct Roman rule by Pilate as procurator), not Galilee (under the rule of Herod Antipas, the ethnarch - not king). And to keep repeating that all the gospels agree on Jesus' death in Judea/under Roman law as adminstered by Pilate, not Galilee/under Herod's law. If she wants to take the sources literally she should at least know what they say.

THANK YOU. Life-saver!

Man, that's tough. I bet "I'm a Jew, and the way you've been relentlessly slandering my heritage for the last several weeks is really offensive to me," would stop her in her tracks for a good solid couple of seconds. Of course, then the &%(@(@ would just argue. And you'd be in that unenviable position of Minority Who Has To Prove The Bigots Wrong, which is always a losing game. So, actually, I've got nothing, although I kind of want to wave my fist and shout "Up against the wall, motherfuckers!" a little bit.

Seriously, this is a really crummy situation. D:

I'm getting worried that I won't even be able to come out as a Jew because there's no way to say it that doesn't seem inherently confrontational when you're talking to someone who evidently finds their existence offensive. Or something. But then, if being told that I'm a Jew WOULDN'T make her embarrassed about her behavior, that's actually worse. D: I'm kind of punking out by waiting for another opportunity to bring it up semi-naturally "in conversation", currently.

I'm just...ugh. And somehow I picture her, when confronted, saying, "Well these are just my OPINIONS! Free speech, yo!" or some variant, you know, whatever's the usual BS excuse there. As if actual historical fact is just a matter of opinion, or totally dissing an entire ethnic group is just, like, something you do if you're into it, not a big deal or something.

For some reason I picture her as less willing to admit the possibility of being wrong than that. No, it's probably because of the way she jumped in and loudly whitesplained for the clueless teacher about Jews and their shocking belief that Jesus is neither a deity nor, according to her, a prophet. And her immediate readiness to answer questions as an authority on Judaism that is so ready I couldn't actually get a word out before she started. Or during. Anyway, I have a nightmare vision of her just denying if, for example, I pointed out that the Romans were responsible for the crucifixion ("But the Jews were responsible", "But it says they were in X," "But it totally DOES say that", "Well, it doesn't matter that crucifixion was for political crimes, it just WAS because some Jews asked"). I feel this is a Finnish response to contradiction but I might just be projecting from negative experiences with my mother-in-law.

Just poking my head up here to say that she's probably not slandering Jews on purpose. I can tell you that those are pretty much the exact words I heard in church while I was growing up (and I was raised Catholic in a mostly-Jewish town), so she might not be aware that that's not the full story. Maybe she'll want to learn?

I'm thinking if someone asked me to describe the difference betwen Sunis and Shiites, my response would probably be, "Um...the hats?" (NB It's probably not the hats.)

I have no idea of the modern differences but I know that they originally had to do with a disputed succession after Mohammed...

"One of the sons of Mohammed nailed a Diet to the church door."

Yeah, I don't think she realizes that it's racist, probably. I've also heard similar, growing up in Southern Baptist Land.

And each time, I'm sure, was a completely positive experience

LOL. Yeah. It was easier as a kid; if I got mad I didn't usually have many compunctions about correcting people vociferously and sometimes quite harshly. I've been rarely had to argue, as it were, with someone in a position of authority. I've argued with my teachers about politics and things as a child, so more than other people perhaps, but this still feels more agonizing. I think that as an adult, and also having had my consciousness somewhat raised also even since adulthood, I feel more responsibility (in multiple ways that is)to correct these things. And then, too, anti-semitism is more painful to me, and feels more like a personal insult, where the political arguments, even if I felt as passionately about them as I was capable of doing as a child, were still not as emotionally charged.

Then it sounds like you're the perfect person to help educate these students. You're personally invested and passionate, but you also know how to be diplomatic.

How to be diplomatic?! I don't know if I know how to form sentences about it in Swedish, let alone diplomatic ones. The only sentences I have come up with in English so far have devolved quickly into shouting.

Really?? Wow, that's totally not the impression I get from your posts. Maybe it's because you have more time to think out your posts than you do to verbally respond. Maybe you could make a powerpoint that'll work at a (second? third?) grade level and just use that for talking points so you don't get angry.

Hahah. I'm glad I come off as more together than I am! But yeah, the posts come after several hours worth of thinking about what to say and putting it into words. I definitely suck at face-to-face confrontations due to the becoming speechless whenever I'm infuriated. :/

Ah, the verbal form of impotence. My problem is my mouth tends to run when I get angry, which often complicates situations unnecessarily. Sometimes I get silent, but I'm sure that's just as useful as when it happens to you. :-\

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