Is it or isn't it normal to not like your friends?

[cimorene]

So I'm watching Julie & Julia even though it's not my type of thing because I love Amy Adams and Meryl Streep, and this dialogue happened:

AMY (Julie): What do you think it means if you don't like your friends?
the divine MARY LYN RAJSKUB (her friend Sarah): It's completely normal.

My initial reaction is "What? No." To me, if you don't like them, they aren't your friends! But then, I'm an introvert, and I also am a bit of a misanthrope. (Also I do remember being in high school and there were girls in my clique that I hung out with, and whose lives I was obliged to keep up with and show interest in, whom I didn't really like. But that's, you know, HIGH SCHOOL.)

But I was talking to my little sister yesterday and she is NOT a total misanthrope who never made a friend IRL who didn't do all the work for her (which I am), although she's a bit shy. And she said after a year in college she's made four friends but she isn't really sure she likes any of them.

So... maybe that IS true. What do you say?

Poll #8260 wilbur & wilmer (these poll results are anonymized: no one can see who chose what)

This poll is anonymous.
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 60

It's normal to not like your friends, sure.

View Answers

No. If you don't like them they aren't your friends.
37 (61.7%)

For SOME of your friends, but not your important ones.
12 (20.0%)

It was in high school but it isn't in the real world.
6 (10.0%)

No, we call that 'pretending to be friends'!
30 (50.0%)

Sure. Of course it is. Totally normal.
3 (5.0%)

You mean there are people who like all of their friends?!
4 (6.7%)

Yes it is, but only in meatspace. Thank Bob for the Internet.
4 (6.7%)

Completely normal IRL and on the Internet. That's what talking behind their back is for.
1 (1.7%)

Feel free to elaborate in the comments.

Comments

[princessofgeeks]

hee!

on Facebook, it's normal to NOT LIKE all your friends. There is obligatory or guilt friending. This is one reason I deleted my Facebook.

On LJ/DW, it is also normal to not like your friends. See above. I keep these products, however, and there is the occasional defriending amnesty thing, THANK GOODness. People grow apart, yes?

In real life, you like your friends IMHO. Otherwise they are not friends. They are acquaitances or inlaws or coworkers. Not friends.

[chalcopyrite]

Otherwise they are not friends. They are acquaintances or inlaws or coworkers.

This! Just because you exchange conversation with someone doesn't make them a friend automatically!

[cimorene]

In the movie, the protagonist went for what she called a "ritual Cobb salad lunch", so evidently a regular thing, with three women whom she didn't really like. Two of them were loud assholes and the third one acted friendly, but then wrote a hugely unflattering article about her for Newsweek. They were evidently friends from college whom she didn't like anymore (although they seemed really unlikeable, people do change, so maybe they used to be genuinely friendly). The friend Sarah mentioned above seemed to be her actual friend, and wasn't present. I think they were who she was talking about when she said that about not liking her friends.

Now, to me, those aren't friends, they're former friends - there seemed to be a mutual dislike going in the scene, although I guess in reality their character was maybe a bit more nuanced? But then again, I'm a bit of an introvert and if such a situation came up for me, I'd just make my excuses and decline to go. I know a lot of people wouldn't do that.

So what about you? Would you call those 'friends', if you're voluntarily submitting to a monthly get-together with them or something, even if you want to puncture their tires on the way out?

[princessofgeeks]

No. I would not call them friends. I would call them former classmates, or networking contacts, or something like that.

I actually reserve the term "friend" for people I actually like. :)

[pineapplechild]

Hell, I have people I like who aren't my friends. Because I don't have the level of emotional investment in them to claim them as friends, or because we just don't know each other that well. But I am an introvert, and a-- hrm, I think the only thing I can think of to signal what I want to explain is say that I'm an INTJ and hope you take my meaning.

[cimorene]

Well, not the Meyers-Briggs part because I haven't memorized them or their different significances. But I presume you probably mean something like me, since I think my temperament is something like that. Maybe not the exact same one - I can't remember for certain. Anyway, yeah, I was wondering if my introversion, and my peculiar social skills or lack thereof, and the fact that I don't actually need social interaction from that many different people, maybe accounted for my attitude (and the fact that, like you, I have people I might like to be closer to because I like them but I don't have the social and emotional energy to put into it).

But going by the comments on this post, there are plenty of more social people who agree that if you dislike them they're not friends (or not real friends or not close friends, or whatever). So I guess it's not just me... or to put it another way, it depends on how broadly you want to define 'friend'.

[mecurtin]

I said yes, but with nuances:

1. when one is married, there may often be people who are "our" friends but are not "your" friends. So, you act friendly, you evince interest in their interests, you share yours (to a certain extent) -- but you don't necessarily *like* them in a truly friendly way, even if you help them out or are concerned for them.

2. "Acquaintance" is for people you don't see much. In every circle (for me, at least) there are people who I know fairly well and spend time with that I don't actually like very much. I have to seriously dislike them before I'll say, "well, I *know* her but I wouldn't call her a *friend* ..." -- ones where there's not so much active dislike are friends-I-don't-like.

3. And then there's LJ, Facebook of Evil, etc.

[cimorene]

I suppose for friendly acquaintances that I saw frequently due to the social circle or my partner I might say "we're friendly" instead of "we're friends", but only if describing the relationship to a neutral third party when I thought there was no chance of the descriptor coming around to offend them...

[laurajv]

Seconding #2 especially. There are people I know fairly well and spend social time with and would send flowers to their funeral and so on, and they're definitely too well-known/often-seen to be called acquaintances, but there's no common word I can use for them to indicate that there's no particular emotional attachment and that there may be some amount of dislike on both sides. I consider this a linguistic failure.

If you cornered me and demanded to know who I thought of as a friend off the top of my head, you have 15 seconds, GO! Those people would not be on the list, but in conversation I might say something like "oh yes, my friend So-and-so works for them, and he says..."

[aeslis]

I have friends that seriously irritate me at times, but if I didn't LIKE them, then I wouldn't bother keeping that friendship going.

[l_elfie]

samesies. i can't imagine saying i was friends with someone i didn't honestly, actually like. (i don't think i've ever had a friendship like that, even in high school. i've always been very loud about people i didn't like.)

[cimorene]

I didn't have any trouble being civil and hiding my dislike for people I disliked but was forced to interact with because of mutual friends, but on the other hand I didn't act friendly towards them either. I just didn't walk around telling everyone I hated them. When I find out that a friend of mine does this - I always used to call it 'fake nice', hating someone yet actively acting friendly towards them in person and actively lying about it to third parties - I'm always seriously creeped out.

[harpers_child]

there are some people in my social circle who i am friends with only because they are besties with people i really like. (i am thinking of two specific people.) both of them i could possibly be closer with if one of us made an effort, but neither of us really tries so we're kind of distant friends even though we see each other every week.

other than that i can think of times where i'm upset with someone and temporarily don't like them, but that kind of thing goes away.

[guinevere33.livejournal.com]

I remember hearing that line and thinking that Julie was INSANE. And possibly an asshole. Who lives like that? I do not voluntarily hang out with people I dislike on the regular!

Of course, there are people with whom I'm forced to socialize who I don't like (see: my friend Rachel's husband, some of my friend Kate's close acquaintances who are always at her parties). But I would never call those people *my* friends.

[cimorene]

Yeah, that's my feeling. She seems to use the term 'friends' quite differently from the way I do... although in the movie, the assholes are people she's meeting up with regularly and voluntarily, apparently because they're... old or former friends? Still, if the lunches in question were going to be like THAT there's no way I'd go.

[guinevere33.livejournal.com]

Some women get socialized to believe they're supposed to have these competitive, catty "friendships" and that this is normal for female/female interactions. Why else was the word "frenemies" invented? It's really sad to see people who think that constant passive aggressive put-downs are the price of having people to hang out with.

[cimorene]

Yeah, it is really sad. :/ Also kind of creepy because you have to wonder what they say about you...

[vass]

I have one friend that I dislike, and one friend that I like okay but don't feel very close to. I don't see them very often. They and I are all part of a small and closely-knit group that adheres to all five of the Geek Social Fallacies.

I couldn't cut Friend A out completely without cutting the rest of the group out too, and they're my social lifeline and I love them.

I don't want to cut Friend B out, it's just kind of weird that he's basically formed an entire social life that doesn't intersect with the rest of us in any way, and hardly ever meets with us, and when he does none of us knows what he's been up to or how he is or anything like that. It's just awkward, like he's moved himself to the category of 'distant friend' but we're all acting like he's still in the category of 'close friend'.

[pocketmouse]

I don't think it's normal in that you're supposed to, but it might be normal in that I think it's very common. You don't like everything about your friends, and sometimes you're only friendly with them under certain circumstances. Also a bunch of my friends are people I used to be really close to, but now don't see much and they irritate me in 90% of our interactions. And they're closer than acquaintances, so I still call them friends.

Here's some Dylan Moran on the subject:

"And then you go see those people you don't like, you know, your friends."

"You're sophisticated people. You meet up every nine months to have a coffee with somebody and bitch about your best friend who's not there. 'I hate them.' 'I hate them more than you do.'"

[foursweatervests]

Okay, serious props to this. Anyone who uses Dylan Moran to make their point must be correct.

[cimorene]

Sometimes I do bitch about my closest friends, but that doesn't mean I don't like them. I still like them better than almost everyone else.

[torachan]

I don't understand the point of friends if you don't like them. Are people so desperate to not be alone that they would rather do things with people they don't like? idgi

[cimorene]

Exactly. There are people that I actually DO like that I don't expend the effort to maintain social ties with, so why would I spend that effort on people I don't?

[laurajv]

Often because it's no additional effort, really. You are going to see these people anyway for some reason. Like, when i played rugby, the whole team was going to be around at social events, and you end up riding in a car for four hours going to a match with people.

The Julie situation is one of those things where you get stuck in a habit and can't think yourself out of the rut. In that case I think a lot of the time it's something like "well, I no longer like them, but we've been friends forever and I don't want to hurt them".

[torachan]

Well, for me, spending time with someone is an effort, period. Even if I do really like them. And the effort is multiplied by how many people there are. It's not like spending time with one person is the same mental energy as spending time with five people.

[cimorene]

Me too, totally. I can't stand parties (where 'party' is a gathering larger than like a small movie-watching party with a couple of friends or includes any strangers). It's quite hard to explain this to people who don't feel that way though. How could Wax and I NOT want a wedding? Wouldn't we regret it? ...Regret what, a year or so of planning-induced stress headaches followed by a long party where we'd have to TALK TO TONS OF PEOPLE? Not likely! XD

[laurajv]

Oh, I'm a major-league introvert, and spending time with anyone is effort for me, and very draining. But I'm talking about situations where, aside from doing something like "leave your church" or "stop playing team sports" or "move out of your dorm" or "never go to your brother's bbqs", you're going to be interacting with these people no matter _what_.

Like, I played rugby. There were about 30 women I had to interact with, a minimum of three times a week, six months out of the year. It wasn't extra effort to see one of them that I happen not to like: it was going to happen unless one of us stopped playing. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about -- many, many people have "friends" from situations like this, because "friends" is the shortest way to describe the relationship a lot of the time. (In the case of team sports, you can often go with "teammate", but say I was talking to someone that I don't want particularly want to explain rugby to -- what am I gonna call those folks? "Women I spend at least 10 hours a week with and know way too many details of their lives"? :D )

[cimorene]

I guess that makes sense. Lucky thing I moved far far away from everybody I ever knew then...

[foursweatervests]

Hmm. But then why the hell would you even pretend to be their friend? Sometimes I don't understand humans.

[cimorene]

Yeah, I mean in high school you pretended because it was just easier when you were forced to share classroom space with them for the rest of the year. But as a grown up I'm just not gonna spend the spoons on it!

[foursweatervests]

Precisely! Though...I'm kind of in that position right now as there's only 10 people in my track I see every. single. class, and 20 people in the program overall. But I would never call all of them my friends. But, god, this is like a flashback to all the horrible parts of high school. Most of which I had done a great job of forgetting. /whinging

[cimorene]

Hmm, yeah. Though for me at least I think as an adult, I would be less willing to tell white lies or bite my tongue (for example, when someone says something offensive) for the sake of playing nice with these people. It probably just comes down to slightly more social courage or something. Too bad you can't get away from them, though!

[foursweatervests]

Yeah, I think I'd have more social courage with them if I hadn't had to live with the rudest one up until last week. I had to see her at school AND at home, so I figured it was better to bite my tongue and be the nicer person since I couldn't get away from her. And I still really can't. We're in every freaking class together, every day. Man, this program is way too small.

[marycontrary]

Friends you like. Friendly associates can be contracted to 'friends'. For example when you've invited people you don't object to because their friends are yours and they round out a card party, you can say "I've invited 8 friends". You might seek contact with these because you think you might become friends as you get to know them better, but if you're convinced that you won't, it's insane to continue.

[cimorene]

That makes sense! I assume in that situation you don't refer to the friendly associates or acquaintances as "friends" inside your own head, or in private with your BFF or partner or whatever, though.

[norah]

I like all of my friends - but I don't like everything about them. One of my best friends - practically family - is unbearable on issues of race. Others I avoid when emotionally fragile because they are too blunt and I can't take it. A work friend is a great person but so relentlessly negative that if I spend too much time with her my whole world gets colored with her misery. Some I like ALL THE TIME. It varies. At core, I like all my friends, and I wouldn't be friends with them if I didn't. I don't always like to spend time with all of them, though. Does that make sense?

[cimorene]

I feel this way about a lot of my friends, maybe all of them (if you catch me in a really bad mood anyway). But I mean, nobody's perfect. If you couldn't find ANYTHING serious to dislike about them they'd be your soulmate or something, and even then they'd probably get on your nerves sometimes. But I wouldn't say that I don't like them, even at moments of irritation, because it's not like I forget that the rest of the time their good qualities outweigh the bad ones.

[phosfate]

It is entirely possible to love someone but not like them all that much.

In this case, however, I don't know why Meryl is wasting a perfectly good lunch on people she doesn't like eating with. Maybe it's a really good restaurant. Maybe it's that movies are stupid.