cimorene | (no subject)

eep. i think i looked at a few of those a while back... it was dreadful.

fortunately, i'm going to remedy the situation by writing hamlet/horatio. ahem.

YOU ARE?

<3

heheh! i sure am.

beachkid and i had a brainstorm one night. it was a while ago but it's still there in the back of my brain. been busy but i don't like to rush things, you know? it'll come. hamlet and horatio are some of my favourite characters. horatio! ah.

yeah, i don't like to rush either.

and me too, hamlet and horatio! i love that play ::sigh::.

i have stories that have been percolating and developing in my brain for years.

most notably my first novel, which is a novelization of the myth of persephone and hades. i started it in 9th grade and abandoned it, realizing it sucked, in 11th. then i started it my sophomore year of college (so 1.5 ago) again--started over, i mean, with serious changes. and i've had to scrap that again. but i've had a mental breakthrough. i think i know how to make it work! so when i eventually start again, i'll have better footing.

awesome! that sounds really cool. you should defintely work on that.... i've got an idea for a novel (sorta) but i haven't been able to get it going. the novels i started in early high school all got scrapped, and for good reason! hehe.

i love the play too. i'm going to re-read hamlet so i can have a fresh grasp on the story, and then think of more of a plot. all i've got for now is just the feeling i want it to have. hamlet and horatio. because i adore them and i don't want to fuck it up. ^_^

yeah.

the feeling i get from watching it in movie form (which i did recently. i still don't like the branagh version. but i did like horatio. and i liked the vibe between him and hamlet. but i didn't like their treatment of ophelia, even though kate winslet is so beautiful)--is that horatio is hopelessly, slavishly devoted body-soul-heart-etc to hamlet. that may be a platonic devotion, but if it is, that doesn't really matter. cause when your whole self is devoted, whether you're fucking because a small issue.

the thing is: how does hamlet feel about horatio? cause i feel horatio's devotion is canon, but by canon i think hamlet's feelings are ambiguous.

that's very true. i especially got that devotion from the branaugh version and also from reading the actual play, it is obvious to me that it is canon... he's totally devoted. all i can do for hamlet's feelings back to him is look at the past they have together... something which shakespeare doesn't really get into. actually, i've noticed he rarely gets into pasts... he usually leaves them completely... well, blank. at least for hamlet. and so i think i can take the liberty of going into the past and doing something with their relationship there to make hamlet's feelings less ambiguous now. and i think that, since the play wasn't focussed on horatio at all, we missed a lot of stuff about their relationship.

i'm rambling a bit right now, but i'll hopefully be able to think a bit more clearly when i actually write it. i'm looking forward to writing the atmosphere of elsinore and looking into the relationship between hamlet and horatio. if hamlet does NOT return horatio's obvious feelings, there's a lot i can do storywise. and, add the fact that hamlet may or may not be mad, is emotionally distraught, feels betrayed by his fiancee, and has an unknown but lengthy past with his best friend horatio... there's a lot to work with. ^_^

he and ophelia weren't affianced, you know. i think it's even ambiguous whether his intentions were honorable. in the branagh version he sleeps with her but that's certainly not canon, and i think goes against popular interpretation. they had to have grown up both at court and known one another, but hamlet has been away for years in germany (and hasn't horatio been there too? or was he someplace else?) . i've always assumed their romance wasn't of such great duration.

i mean, when you look at the 'get thee to a nunnery' scene, either he:

a) actually is mad and can't help himself.
b) doesn't really love her all that much and is thus willing to be cruel to her in the service of his new One True Purpose, ie revenge.
c) has a nasty temper, and though he really cares, is willing to be cruel cause he's angry that she obeyed her father's command to stop seeing him.
(there are others which i think are not really suggested by the text, but it can be twisted to them--i.e. that he knows they're watching and says everything with double entendre and that she grasps he doesn't really mean it.)

my preferred interpretation is (b)--because i don't like (c) and i think (a) is discredited elsewhere in the play. if you assume that theirs was largely a courtly love, or an infatuation, and that except for the last few months they haven't seen one another since ophelia was a child... well.

on a slightly different subject--doesn't it also say horatio is his oldest friend? how far back do you assume it goes? at one point, i remember being confused because he says he 'saw the king once.' (me: only once? didn't you grow up in elsinore?) maybe they were at boarding school together.

all very good points. and this is the reason why i need to find myself a copy of hamlet before i write anything! ^_^ i haven't read the play since late 2002, so certain things are understandably foggy.

i'm actually not too sure about the scene with ophelia. i'll have to see when i re-read it.

it's likely i'll work a lot more with hamlet and horatio. i know they were in germany going to school together, and i imagine they were there for quite a while, being aristocrats and such. it's quite possible that hamlet went to boarding school even before college age, as well, which would add sense to horatio's having not seen the king many times. but i assume that they've known eachother for quite a while... at least more than a few years. again, i very much need to re-read the play before i can set down any plot, heh,

yeah. you can get it online, you know. could just print it out. no libraries required.

i was thinking about that, but i'm not sure if my printer can handle it... poor bugger, always out of ink. we'll have to see... i'm going to check the bookstore and if i can find a good copy at a reasonable price, i'll probably just buy it. i have much hamlet love, it's only right that i own it, heh.

sometimes the big bookstores have those cheapo versions of the classics for like 99 cents.

or you could get the riverside shakespeare at a library and copy it at kinko's--they're only like 2 cents a page, i think, and the print's so small it'd probably be no more than fifty pages.

i got a cheap(ish) version for $5. i like to have the word-meaning notes... i don't use them all that much any more but sometimes i still need them. plus we don't have a kinko's. i think there's a copying place but it's kind of out of the way and expensive... i pretty much take the bus places so if it isn't at one of the three malls, i don't go there. ^_^

wow, ouch.

of course i know in the future, buses will be my fate.

and no kinko's!

the cheap versions of literature DO get cheaper than that, but with footnotes is naturally better. i like the footnotes too. but i have one copy that i bought for a class and it's half footnotes. the play's printed only on the right of each page spread and the whole other HALF is footnotes, random illustrations and stupid little facts. it even has blank space. so basically it's twice as long as it needs to be--at least. in fact, i have another (older, smaller-print) copy that's less than a third the thickness.

i think kinko's is american! so. ^^

buses aren't so bad.... they can be annoying, but i console myself with the fact that i can read instead of having to drive, and they are very cheap, and are good for the environment, compared to cars that is.

i did purchase a copy of 'the importance of being earnest' for $1.50. cheap as they come. that book doesn't exactly need footnotes, though, and i really couldn't resist. i LOVE that play.

there was some shakespeare like that i saw today... half footnotes. that's a little excessive. all i need's a few notes at the bottom. i know the *fancy* "Oxford Versions" we use at school are quite good when it comes to footnotes but just excessive on the introductory essays.... more than half the book is devoted to that. but those do have their uses, when it comes to writing papers.

yeah, the introduction and afterword of Real Literature, esp. in the Literature section, are always useful for that. :)

i love 'the importance of being earnest' too. i was surprised how much less i liked, uh, whatsitwhatsit, 'an ideal husband.' the thing is that i just LOVE farce and satire. monty python, p.g. wodehouse (jeeves & wooster), good omens (although not all terry pratchett--he's a little too silly for me most of the time).

i prefer the darker farce and satire. and i want to recommend tom stoppard's one and only novel, long out of print, really old. it's called lord malquist and mr. moon. it's totally weird, incredibly surreal, i mean, really, REALLY surreal. and excellent farce. it's brilliant. but it's hard to get a hold of. if they have it at your library, though! mine did. i should've done that at my school--can't get out of print hardbacks for as little as the missing book fine. :(

i've never actually read 'good omens'.... nor 'an ideal husband'. but i just fell in love with 'the importance of being earnest' when i read it in grade 12 lit class, and since then have been reading it online voraciously every few months. i just love how the humour is... well, not subtle, but clever. the entire play relies on wit, and that makes me extremely happy. i'm all for a little silly comedy once in a while but there's nothing lasting about it.

now i want to read that.... not at my school library, nor the public one, unfortunately. i'll check the bookstores, but it may be a losing game. ;_; he's a very clever man, though, and i may have to read some more of his plays.

i don't even know what else he's written, giggle.

maybe inter-library loan could get it for you?

i haven't actually read the importance of being earnest. i saw the movie version with colin firth, rupert everett, reese witherspoon and... was it minnie driver?

aaaaah have no clue. something like that. i can never remember their names. but that version was pretty good, yes. i still liked the play better. it's like... two hours to read it? you should! you can find it online, even. ^_^

i'd better check it out from the library--severely restricted online time now.

OMG i got rosencrantz and guildenstern are dead from the library last night, and i finished it already. brilliant! fabulous! so sweet, poignant, hilarious. it adds some slashiness to the movie, but isn't overall more slashy cause the movie has chemistry (tim and gary being in loooooove helped a lot) and you can't duplicate that on the page. an eyefuck is worth a thousand words. BUT i still love it... i want to type it all up, but i don't think i have time. i have this fic-itch. maybe slashing tim and gary will satisfy it.

oooh, i see. i wouldn't have thought! well you've disappeared a bit lately, i noticed! :3

isn't it awesome? i love it... i still have it around my room, i flip it open once in a while.

you know, i think the main slashiness is in the stage directions, you know, their actions. maybe a sub story plot. ^o^

dude i was supposed to write that slash after i watched the movie. i'm so pissed i can't find it.

hmmm... now i'll have to re-read it again (she said happily), paying attention to the stage directions.