cimorene: cartoony drawing of a woman's head in profile giving dubious side-eye (seekrit agent)
Cimorene ([personal profile] cimorene) wrote2009-02-19 04:41 pm

NCIS, gayness levels, and The Gay Spike

Damn, the new NCIS was good. And not only good, either - I mean, it was partly good acting, and it was partly better writing than usual, because it was really sparkling, and Michael whassname is really good at - you know, impressions, and being a bit of a goof, and comic timing - so I'm sure they wrote the ep for him, just to let him shine, as it were. But anyway, my point is that it wasn't just better written than usual, it was more gay than usual. Like, okay. In graph form,



NCIS is usually about as gay as Highlander, which is to say, amusingly gay, but not necessarily anything that your typical non-gay, non-slash-goggles-wearer would even pick up on; the realm of repeated humourous subtext, but without the intense focus on interpersonal relations, in a bromance way, that you find in Star Trek and the other higher-up shows on the graph (there are plenty of other shows, too, obviously, I just picked big fandoms that spring immediately to mind as benchmarks). It spikes occasionally, especially in s6, with Agent Afloat and Tony's return to the job WITH BONUS EYEFUCKING AND HANDSHAKES, not to mention the Meet The Parents ep where Gibbs's dad is all over Tony and then inexplicably (or rather, unexplainedly) gives him a sweater., but those spikes have heretofore, due to characterisation and camerawork (ie no lovingly lingering shots of the eyefucking, more like you have to notice it happening is a comic aside when the plot is focussed elsewhere), been still mostly at sub-Star Trek levels. Last night's episode was firmly up above Star Trek gayness levels, although still under Due South (it's hard to get as gay as riding off into the sunset together) - more like The Sentinel (other shows at TS's level of gayness: Merlin, Starsky & Hutch from what I have observed).

I keep refreshing my delicious subscriptions looking for episode tags because I'm too lazy to try to write one myself, but you could totally put a really awesome Gibbs/Dinozzo FT fic either directly after the events of the ep, or shortly after like a few days or weeks. Even though my personal canon places that earlier this season.

ETA: If you haven't seen it, go participate in [livejournal.com profile] thefourthvine's Scientific Poll on the subject!http://thefourthvine.livejournal.com/98874.html#cutid1 & http://thefourthvine.livejournal.com/99145.html#cutid1
ext_2233: Writing MamaDeb (Default)

[identity profile] mamadeb.livejournal.com 2009-02-20 09:45 pm (UTC)(link)
That's also the central metaphor for Merlin, where he has to hide his gaynessmagic.

But, yes. Remember - in TS, they *live* together. In a LOFT. That all by itself makes it about as gay as gay could be.

[identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com 2009-02-20 10:03 pm (UTC)(link)
True! Those two are both off the scale on subtext.

[identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com 2009-02-20 10:04 pm (UTC)(link)
No, it's no-rights-reserved!

[identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com 2009-02-20 10:07 pm (UTC)(link)
I didn't actually know about that! So TS is kind of explicitly gay sometimes too, not just off the scale on subtext? I don't even know whether to classify that kind of symbolism as subtext or explicit. Or explicit subtext?

[identity profile] making-gray.livejournal.com 2009-02-20 11:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, the slash overloaded my brain! It set a completely unprecedented level of gay on NCIS. I seriously hope the rest of s6 continues like this. I loved the stairwell!sexconversation.

[identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com 2009-02-20 11:49 pm (UTC)(link)
The graph is genius. Did you make this graph yourself? *is convinced it must stem from at least an MIT research project or similar* Hoho.

I am now going to map the entire world output of anything onto this graph.

[identity profile] damned-colonial.livejournal.com 2009-02-21 02:41 am (UTC)(link)
You know what's interesting about your one? The plot points follow a roughly U shape. So what I'm seeing there is that the slashy shows are either brilliantly written or horribly written, but that the shows with merely average writing just aren't usually that slashy. Hmm.
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[identity profile] melannen.livejournal.com 2009-02-21 04:01 am (UTC)(link)
I saw that too. But I'm not sure if it's a real effect, or just that when shows are THAT SLASHY I have trouble being objective about the writing!

(It may come down to - if the slashy relationships are well done, I rated the slash high, and if the slashy relationships are deeply, deeply over-the-top and campy, I rated the slash high, but shows where I was so-so on the writing, I was so-so on the relationships too.)

[identity profile] jacquez.livejournal.com 2009-02-21 04:53 am (UTC)(link)
It is not quite Xena-level, but it's...something, all right! It is one of the shows that I've occasionally heard people call "gayer than gay porn" -- usually they are thinking about Cock Ring Ken Jim dressed like he wandered in from Castro St., the naked & impaled dream, or the merging spirit animals when they say this.

I was watching an episode once, and my husband wandered into the room, watched for less than a minute, said "My GOD this show is slashy" and wandered out.

Now, I am not knocking dS's gayness, because...partnership is like a marriage, son!

[identity profile] jacquez.livejournal.com 2009-02-21 04:54 am (UTC)(link)
Bromance makes me wonder: how gay is Scrubs?

...now I need to go youtube "Guy Love". 'scuse.

[identity profile] rageprufrock.livejournal.com 2009-02-21 05:41 am (UTC)(link)
This chart is the best thing I have ever seen.
ext_108: Jules from Psych saying "You guys are thinking about cupcakes, aren't you?" (Default)

[identity profile] liviapenn.livejournal.com 2009-02-21 11:16 am (UTC)(link)

Hmm... that much worse than Highlander? Really? Not just the best eps of Highlander?

*is going to get beaten by highlander fen friends*
brownbetty: (Default)

[personal profile] brownbetty 2009-02-21 04:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Maybe the slash factor tends to dispose one to have a higher opinion of the writing, unless the writing is really really really bad, in which case there's no denying it.
brownbetty: (Default)

[personal profile] brownbetty 2009-02-21 04:49 pm (UTC)(link)
I've never seen Sentinel, but I cannot believe the writing level was worse than on Merlin! Is this possible?

Now I want to see it.
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[identity profile] melannen.livejournal.com 2009-02-21 05:56 pm (UTC)(link)
I've only seen about an episode of each! But my reasoning goes like this: in Merlin fic, people use actual (non-slash-related) plot points in episodes; they write about one-episode guest stars; they write what are essentially "casefile" fics. As far as I can tell, nobody ever does that in Sentinel - they just seem to write relationship-focused stuff, to the point that I couldn't tell you a single plot point from any Sentinel episode that doesn't bear directly on Jim & Blair's big gay love. Whereas I could probably give you a pretty good summary of all of Merlin so far. (Though this may just be because Merlin doesn't *have* plot points that aren't about big gay love.) So Merlin's writing must have something going for it that Sentinel's doesn't.

(Also, I think I'm more forgiving than a lot of people of the way Merlin-BBC relates to the mythos. Compared to some of the stuff I read the last time I was in King Arthur fandom, the Slash Dragon is a nuanced and accurate interpretation of the original story.)

[identity profile] laceymcbain.livejournal.com 2009-02-22 04:48 am (UTC)(link)
Someone so needs to add Starsky and Hutch into one of these graphs. Honestly. They hold hands in the squadroom and are about as touchy-feely as Jim and Blair. Possibly moreso (if possible).

[identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com 2009-02-22 01:37 pm (UTC)(link)
I made it out of my own brain, but [livejournal.com profile] thefourthvine is doing a Scientific Study with POLLS now and a 1-10 scale as opposed to an "eyeball it" scale which is what I used. :D MORE GRAPHS TO FOLLOW!!!!! I ♥ graphs.

[identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com 2009-02-22 01:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, I'm afraid I have never watched S&H so, although I am well aware of their seminal fandom position and whatnot, I could not undertake to add them to my graph, which came entirely from my own canon familiarity with the fandoms in question and was created with the scientific method of "squint at the screen for a second and then place the dots by feel". So, you know, we'd better wait for TFV.

[identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com 2009-02-22 01:40 pm (UTC)(link)
I can't help thinking that a big, scientific one will be the most beautiful thing ever.

[identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com 2009-02-22 01:42 pm (UTC)(link)
LOL inorite. I was like, "Is he srsly - haha, wouldn't it be great if he dragged him into the stairwell and got in his face to tell him that he loves him has faith or something, not that even NCIS would be THAT gay. HO- WHAT - HOLY SHIT."

[identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com 2009-02-22 01:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Hmmm... well... I kinda placed the dots by squinting but... I guess I'd say on 1-10 I put TS at 2 and Highlander at 4. But it must be said that I *deliberately* only watched the Methos episodes and it's quite possible the Highlander average is more like a 3.

On the scale of how much alcohol I needed to get through an episode in good humour, TS is somewhere around "2 glasses of wine and some hard liquor", while Highlander is more like "1 glass of wine and some chocolate".

...Scientific, right?

[identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com 2009-02-22 01:54 pm (UTC)(link)
I read one, but it was preslashy, not actual slash. However, there is some good Gibbs/DiNozzo fic. Hoyden's springs to mind, but I've read one I quite liked by [livejournal.com profile] rageprufrock as well: try http://delicious.com/cimness/gibbs%2Fdinozzo and try the sidebar tags +!, +rec, and +♥ for the more outstanding ones (in one way or another). Jane Davitt's written some snappy dialogue (without substantial plottiness or romantic development that I recall), [livejournal.com profile] twoweevils has written far too few stories which are generally too short but some of my favourites (esp "Dating George Clooney" and "On It, Boss"), and [livejournal.com profile] cupidsbow has written, I think, two pieces that were both outstanding (esp "Say When").

[identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com 2009-02-22 02:00 pm (UTC)(link)
They approach the gay from different angles, in fact! The porny sexualised angle and the MARRIAGE~ angle. ? Okay, I admit, I definitely noticed the high porniness content in the eps of TS I've seen, too, even though they weren't quite THAT symbolic.

[identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com 2009-02-22 02:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Hell, yes. I say this from the POV of 3 eps of TS and about 1½ of Merlin.

[identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com 2009-02-22 02:03 pm (UTC)(link)
[livejournal.com profile] wax_jism, who has actually watched most of both, backs me up with YES IT REALLY REALLY REALLY IS. She says that in Merlin, part of it is that they're being silly on purpose and just having fun. The Sentinel's badness is entirely down to actually being that bad.

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