cimorene: cartoony drawing of a woman's head in profile giving dubious side-eye (bend it like beckham)
[personal profile] cimorene
My dad, on the lookout for me as always: "Looking for SF or fantasy w [gay] characters in which 'Oh God, I'm gay,' angst isn't a significant plot device."
Some dude also active in the field: "Hm, I'm not sure I know that trope."


LOL. Not know that trope? Seriously? When the gay and lesbian characters on tv are still pretty much universally evil or dead? When there are still more "officially unofficially" gay stars in Hollywood than openly out & proud ones? When the term Sweeps Lesbians actually has meaningful reality and applies more than once every year and those appearances outnumber the entire rest of the year's put together?

I am invisible in the fictional worlds of mainstream media.

Except in slash. Slash fiction, whatever else it may be, is incontrovertibly at least somewhat gay. (The line for people who think it's just about straight women's straight sex fantasies forms in the 1980s. Please contact a male academic for your time machine.)

Now, slash is a "subversive" reading: usually not the one intended, or even foreseen. And the problem with that is that, while it makes me feel a bit better about gay invisibility in media canons (by giving me something else to look at), the entire need for such a subversive reading is the result of that overwhelming, heart-sickening, enraging invisibility in the first place. This is why slash goggles aren't enough - because it's not enough for it to be visible to slashers; we need to be visible to everybody (I firmly believe visibility is going to be a necessary part of our fight for civil rights, and that the increase in visibility is related to the increasing number of states' legalization of gay marriage).

So sometimes I want to consume some media where the gay content was actually the creator's explicit intent - mainstream media is pretty clear about not wanting us, and sometimes you are sick of that. And Wax and I do have a small collection of hard-won gay films, but they're pretty much all An Issue Movie and they usually involve HIV and/or unhappy endings. Until last month I'd actually never seen a lesbian romance film with a happy ending.The thing is that that genre is almost entirely hidden from the mainstream.

This genre fiction may be the Out and Proud of gay representations, but the out and proud lesbians and gay men - the visible ones - aren't the majority in reality. Even when you're not in the closet, a lot of times you pass. What about all the invisible gay people, the percentage of the ordinary people you pass by at school and work and in the grocery store who are gay? Where are they? Well - they're hidden in the mainstream canon, arguably.

Is it any more "subversive" to conjecture that a fictional character from CSI or Dollhouse or Star Trek is gay than to conjecture that I am straight, as no doubt happens every time I step out in public? Some percentage - and it's hard to calculate in reality, but definitely higher than 2 - of people are gay; if the show doesn't show us who they are, well, what if it were these two? What if they weren't evil? What if they weren't dead? What if they were the protagonist, instead of just a sidekick?

So one way to look at it is that the mainstream media is an oppressive institution that needs a dose of subverting. Another way is that we're tired of waiting for other people to hand us the last piece of representation and are taking our own piece instead. "Subversion" should perhaps mean something more radical than "bringing in line with reality".

And that's why slash goggles are necessary, why by-us-for-us isn't enough, and why slash can be so much more satisfying than simply consuming a rare text that already acknowledged our existence in the first place: it's the media world that, dammit, we live in too, and we just want to take a piece of it back.
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(no subject)

Date: 11 May 2009 05:01 pm (UTC)
harpers_child: i gave in and ate five rotten applecores from the tree of knowledge  (five rotten applecores)
From: [personal profile] harpers_child
i still fondly remember my senior year of high school when willow first met tara and my friends and i declaring "they should totally be girlfriends. it'd be cute." then it happened.

(no subject)

Date: 11 May 2009 05:05 pm (UTC)
isilya: (Default)
From: [personal profile] isilya
For all its failings, Dark Angel was waaaay ahead of its time in regards to race, gender and sexuality. I think Original Cindy was the first black lesbian character I'd ever seen -- all these years later, and off the top of my head, I can still only think of The Wire for black and biracial gays and lesbians.

Is it any more "subversive" to conjecture that a fictional character from CSI or Dollhouse or Star Trek is gay than to conjecture that I am straight, as no doubt happens every time I step out in public?

It's also interesting to consider this in light of JKR's post-textual revelation of Dumbledore's homosexuality. If one character is gay, not textually, but because character's have backstories and inner lives not portrayed in the text, then why can't they all have gay, trans or bisexual off-text back stories and inner lives?

I am sorry about your invisibility.

(no subject)

Date: 11 May 2009 05:06 pm (UTC)
isilya: (Default)
From: [personal profile] isilya
For what it's worth, I'm also enraged that Parminder Nagra excised the onscreen, textual gay from Bend It Like Beckham.

(no subject)

Date: 11 May 2009 06:04 pm (UTC)
cesare: a mermaid's tail (underwater)
From: [personal profile] cesare
Until last month I'd actually never seen a lesbian romance film with a happy ending.

Wow. What was it?

This is making me wrack my brain for every movie with a lesbian relationship that ends well that I've seen. The Incredible True Story of Two Girls In Love, that one's not perfect, but it's sweet. Also, I watched Being John Malkovich again the other day, and it ends a little ominously, but on a happy note for the f/f couple.

God, is that it? D:

While I'm throwing out titles, The Hanging Garden is a fantastic little Canadian film about a hugely dysfunctional family as seen through the eyes of the gay brother who got the hell out and reluctantly comes back. It has a happy ending right out of slash; you'll know what I mean if you see it.

(no subject)

Date: 11 May 2009 06:06 pm (UTC)
perhael: Gary Numan (numan mirror)
From: [personal profile] perhael
Amen to all of this.

(no subject)

Date: 11 May 2009 06:07 pm (UTC)
torachan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] torachan
I don't know if it's the film Cim was referring to, but Imagine Me & You is adorable.

(no subject)

Date: 11 May 2009 06:21 pm (UTC)
torachan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] torachan
Yeah, I really liked that he wasn't the evil ex or anything. I loved all the relationships and how complicated and real everything felt.

(no subject)

Date: 11 May 2009 06:30 pm (UTC)
cesare: a drawing of cesare borgia by you higuri (.cesare borgia)
From: [personal profile] cesare
I recommend Being John Malkovich both as a great movie and for the f/f relationship, which is integral and primary-- the action shakes out to center on a love triangle with a f/f leg. Actually, I think Being John Malkovich's f/f plot is oddly like slash fanfic as well, but again, I don't want to get specific and spoil it in case you see it.

[personal profile] anatsuno reminds me of Bound. I don't know if that one counts for much since it's got such a straight guy voyeurism aspect to it. But it does center on a f/f relationship, and it does end well, so... technically... *shrugs*

I'll have to check out Imagine Me & You.

(no subject)

Date: 11 May 2009 08:23 pm (UTC)
bluesbell: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bluesbell
And the problem with that is that, while it makes me feel a bit better about gay invisibility in media canons (by giving me something else to look at), the entire need for such a subversive reading is the result of that overwhelming, heart-sickening, enraging invisibility in the first place.

YES. This is what has made me so annoyed lately- the growing awareness that while slashing things provides me with a happy distraction, the need for the distraction is caused by the near total absence of canon gay romances.

(Re-posted to correct a typo. Sorry!)

(no subject)

Date: 11 May 2009 08:43 pm (UTC)
pineapplechild: HELLO!, says the giant squid, wait why are you running away (Default)
From: [personal profile] pineapplechild
Word.

(no subject)

Date: 11 May 2009 09:16 pm (UTC)
redbrickrose: (Things I Have Learned About Ambiguity)
From: [personal profile] redbrickrose
Yes. YES. This.

THIS, times a million.

Date: 11 May 2009 09:21 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] puritybrown
I think I love you for writing this.

I remember explaining to my friends why I wasn't going to see Troy: I'd heard about the bowdlerisation of the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus, and it pissed me off. "Well, you can read between the lines!" said a friend who'd seen the movie. Yeah, I said, I could read between the lines, but I shouldn't have to. Especially when I'm watching a movie about two characters who were THE paradigm of faithful lovers in Ancient Greek culture. There's even a passage in Plato's Symposium where Phaedrus makes an argument about which one of them was the erastes and which one the eromenos: probably the world's first recorded "who tops?" debate.

(And I hated the ending of Kissing Jessica Stein too. It was going so well up until the obvious chickening out.)

Re lesbian movies with happy endings: do you want recs? Because I have a bunch. I've been watching out for gay and lesbian films since I was 14.

(no subject)

Date: 11 May 2009 09:30 pm (UTC)
jain: Two Asian women kissing, eyes closed. Text: "jain" (girls kissing)
From: [personal profile] jain
So sometimes I want to consume some media where the gay content was actually the creator's explicit intent - mainstream media is pretty clear about not wanting us, and sometimes you are sick of that.

Yes, this, exactly. I've read and watched a lot of books, movies, drama series, etc. with queer content, and the number of times I've ended up depressed as my favorite characters died or ended up alone and miserable or whatever is just ridiculous. (Especially with regard to movies, I guess because the options there are Hollywood movies that do happy films, and the very, very occasional queer film, but never mix the two, or indie movies that pretty much don't do happy films for anyone.)

Anyway, thanks for articulating the problem so clearly, and for giving me the impetus to try to do something about it: [community profile] gay_also_means_happy, a community for queer media recommendations without the suicidal angst.

Re: THIS, times a million.

Date: 11 May 2009 10:35 pm (UTC)
pineapplechild: HELLO!, says the giant squid, wait why are you running away (divide by cucumber error)
From: [personal profile] pineapplechild
even if she doesn't, i want recs. particularly the lesbians. because i no longer have to watch my glbt movies on my laptop, in my room, with the headphones on.

(no subject)

Date: 11 May 2009 10:59 pm (UTC)
lobelia321: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lobelia321
Amen to everything, and none of what you write above makes me want to watch any more than the one hour television a week I currently watch. And that only to socialise with t'sons. Meh. I'll stick to the fanon. I always suspected it was the real thing and the canon just fodder.

Huh.

Re: THIS, times a million.

Date: 11 May 2009 11:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] puritybrown
I'll repost this to with more detail later when I've had some sleep; for now, IMDB links with brief descriptions (NB because "happy ending" is a prerequisite, I'm not being too cautious with spoilers):

Better Than Chocolate: Canadian bookstore assistant falls in love with wandering artist; only trouble is, her mother's in town and she needs to hide the vibrators... Also there is a subplot with a transwoman that is very well-done (she sings a song called "I'm Not A Fucking Drag Queen", which gives you a sense of the angle they take).
When Night Is Falling: Teacher at a Christian college runs away with a circus performer. Really gorgeous film, this.
Go Fish: Quite possibly my favourite movie ever; I watched it over and over again in my teens. It's kind of arty, black and white, has a bit of a semi-improvised feel sometimes, but at its heart it's a realistic romcom about two women. Also, there is a monologue about "never being out enough" that will probably resonate with Cim, based on this post.
Fucking Åmål (aka Show Me Love) Swedish teenagers Agnes (nerdy and friendless) and Elin (sexy and wild) live in Åmål, which is boring. The film? Is not boring. It's funny and charming and lovely.
Pourquoi Pas Moi? Three queer friends (and one straight hanger-on) who work together at a gay & lesbian publisher decide they're all going to come out to their parents on the same weekend. Wacky hijinks ensue. More on the "comedy" end of "romantic comedy", but there is a healthy dollop of romance in there.
Gazon Maudit (aka French Twist) The very butch Marijo turns up at the house of married woman Loli whose husband is unfaithful; you can probably figure out the rest, but maybe not all of it. I found the ending a little bit overly convenient in the way it made everyone happy, but I was too busy grinning like a loon to care.
Sancharram (aka The Journey) Indian film about two girls who grow up next door to each other in a remote area and fall in love. The ending is not as unambiguously positive as the others on this list, but I still think it's a happy ending, because there are two obvious unhappy endings that are explicitly ruled out. Anyway, it's a beautiful film.

(no subject)

Date: 12 May 2009 03:49 am (UTC)
liviapenn: miss piggy bends jail bars (remains sexy while doing so) (f. leverage. hardison saw it coming)
From: [personal profile] liviapenn

I do know there are more lesbian films but, in the limited time I've spent combing AfterEllen, it seems like most of them are still angsty.

I have terrible taste in movies, but I really liked D.E.B.S.-- it's super-cheesy "supervillain falls in love with a secret agent" fluff, but it definitely has a happy ending. :)
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