cimorene: closeup of four silver fountain pen nibs on white with "cimorene" written above in midcentury vertical roundhand cursive (bounce script)
I've been thinking about Wake Up Dead Man some more even though I haven't gone and looked up the list of books, because I am not ready to purchase new ebooks yet, and that's what I'll have to do for the ones there I haven't read before.

Meanwhile though, I have been rereading some Agatha Christie. I am not exactly a giant Christie fan, but I have read most of Agatha Christie's works (and usually multiple times) because I like Golden Age mystery as a genre and my MIL was a superfan, so I have had convenient access to paperbacks of Christie's works.

And I realized with a start yesterday that while the setting and setup in Wake Up Dead Man is in some respects is EXTREMELY typical of Golden Age detective fiction, in another it's very very unusual - Some spoilers )
cimorene: closeup of a large book held in a woman's hands as she flips through it (reading)
I have been reading and skimming 1920s magazines and have not got tired of that yet. I have learned so much more about the period, and have a much firmer grip on the idiom of the time.

It was a didactic article about world literature from one of these 20s women's magazines that actually made me curious about the Arabian Nights - I didn't read the whole article, bc racism, but the brief history inspired me to read on Wikipedia. The history and background there fascinated me, and I wanted to read the translation of

[t]he Leiden Edition, prepared by Muhsin Mahdi, [...] the only critical edition [...] to date,[48] believed to be most stylistically faithful representation of medieval Arabic versions currently available. [... It] was rendered into English by Husain Haddawy (1990).[61] This translation has been praised as 'very readable' and 'strongly recommended for anyone who wishes to taste the authentic flavour of those tales'.


It is very readable and really entertaining! In fact I've stayed awake longer than I meant to several nights this week because of wanting to finish one of the stories.

I've also realized that the... maybe not exactly subgenre; category? of Arabian fantasy is all stylistically influenced by them. That seems painfully obvious now that I've thought it, but I've never thought about it before! I have not read much of it, though, and I know there are newer fantasy novels in that setting that are not written by white people, some on my to-read list; they are possibly quite different or more diverse. But in the past (mostly childhood), I've read


  • Castle in the Air by Diana Wynne Jones (1990), set in the universe of Howl's Moving Castle

  • The Harem of Aman Akbar by Elizabeth Ann Scarborough (1984)

  • Night's Master and Death's Master by Tanith Lee (1978-79)



Oh, Wikipedia even says on the page for the last series that it's inspired by the Thousand and One Nights. I must've seen that before I read them (it was only like five years ago maybe) and forgotten.
cimorene: A psychedelic-looking composition featuring four young women's heads in pink helmets on a background of space with two visible moons (disco)
Last time I updated about my learning to drive stick/standard shift I posted this, you may remember:

Total cost:

Application fee: 25€
Driving lessons: 875€
ADHD tax: 152€


Incorrect. That was my total cost thus far, but I forgot the fees for the theory test and the driving test! I have now reserved a time for the theory test on August 14.

Theory test fee: 40€
Driving test fee (not booked yet): 99€

Total: 1191€


I'll have to take the bus to Turku to take it at the nearest Ajovarma office. Read more... ) I have been studying the badly-translated textbook that came with my driving class (and also the good Swedish translation and occasionally the Finnish original, for clarity) and going through the test practice questions. I passed the first full practice test I took yesterday, but at about 70%, so I'm trying to make it so I know the answers to all the questions.

Friday I had a second lesson with the driving simulator, and it was much better than the first one. It was fun actually! But I completely failed to manage to start the car on a hill again (I failed to do this in my first simulator lesson like 8 times in a row and the teacher, after coaching me through the steps and explaining it, just gave up and reset the lesson lol) and had to reset it. Now I've read in the textbook I realize it's because the hill in the simulator was too steep for the instructions he gave me the first time (on a gentle slope you only need the brake, but on a steep hill you need the parking brake as well - terrifying).

BONUS OFF-TOPIC FUN FACTS: READING AND BANNING

  1. After we watched the season finale of the Murderbot show, and I discussed it extensively with both my sister (who is extremely ALL CHANGE IS BAD CHANGE) and [personal profile] waxjism (who is not, but was annoyed because the show felt too YA for her, although she didn't HATE it), I reread the books. I had reread All Systems Red before the show; last week I reread it again, then all the others, and then I read the newest short story, Rapport: Friendship, Solidarity, Communion, Empathy (about ART and its crew). And after that for days I just wanted MORE and didn't want to read anything else, but the next novel isn't out yet; I reread Artificial Condition again and started Network Effect again, and skimmed through the tags on AO3 and Tumblr to see what people are saying... but it wasn't really satisfying. When I'm interested in a ship that is non-sexual in nature, I rarely find what I want from fandom, and that's what happened again (though there is some gen friendship fic and some queerplatonic fic on AO3). I can't begrudge people their desire to sexualize nonsexual relationships, because I've definitely thought that was fun before. I wrote Finding Nemo slash (and I stand by that). But when you don't want to read that, and I don't, your odds are simply worse, because there's less of it.

    Unlike my sister, I didn't hate the show, but I was even more annoyed by what Wax called "YA" writing choices than she was. I'm not sure if she can stand to watch it with me when the next season comes out, because I find it very hard to shut up when I'm annoyed at tv. I am happy with the casting and have no problem with the acting - all the things that I disliked are what I consider objectively bad adaptation and writing choices. But it was still fun and watchable when considered as its own work in isolation from the books! Just weirdly and unnecessarily YA in tone.


  2. For fans of banning/blocking, the action, you'll be pleased that I banned someone from my design blog [tumblr.com profile] designobjectory last week! I like all ages and periods of decorative arts, but my blog contains a lot of my special interests - midcentury modern, Bauhaus, Art Deco and Art Nouveau, and Swedish and Finnish design (mostly 20th c). Somebody reblogged one of my MANY posts of Finnish midcentury light fixtures by Finnish lighting titan Lisa Johansson Pape (one of the many times I've posted a variant of her 44 cm. diameter metal pendant lamp shade, which is still in production by Innolux)... anyway, somebody reblogged it with a comment sort of like "This is the ONE Scandinavian modern thing I like lol. I hate light birch furniture!" My blog is extremely heavy on light wood because of my strong interest in Swedish and Finnish 20th century design! So I blocked them. First I asked Wax if that was too unreasonable and she laughed a lot and said that it's never unreasonable to block people on your own blog. Maybe a little weird though. I mean, probably. But it's so thrilling and satisfying to block someone.


  3. Ever since DW made it so you can type @ + username to create the little username embed ([personal profile] waxjism), I have completely switched to it and whenever I want to use the version that links to another site I forget what the code is and end up having to google it. I mean, to search the DW faqs. This is the third time it's happened. That's because it's user name, with a space between. I always forget that.
cimorene: Pixel art of a bright apple green art deco tablet radio with elaborate ivory fretwork (is this thing on?)
I haven't been able to get invested in reading a specific fandom in several years. Every now and then I look at fandoms I have read in the past and manage to spend a few weeks rereading some of them before I run out of patience to keep looking, but that's not very long.

About a month ago, I tried to read some 911 fic from [personal profile] waxjism's spreadsheet. She is keeping a spreadsheet of every fic in this fandom she has read. She records the title and author; pairing (even though they're all the same pairing); summary - which is sometimes the author summary and sometimes she writes something in this field like a comment, or a whole rant, that doesn't actually include a summary; a column called "good/no" where she categorizes them as very good, good, above mid, mid, "sub mid", or bad; and a column called "comments" where she sometimes rants, or continues the rant from the summary columnn, and sometimes just says things like "fun-ish" or "not flawless" or "pretty hot" or "unbearably written by a child or a super-offline person". This is different from how I, at least, used to keep track of a recs list when I had to do it manually, because she puts in everything she starts even if she DNF immediately, and also it's for private use. I tried to use it to find things to read, and it's not like I'm unfamiliar with reading fanfiction without canon but also I had seen some of this show accidentally while she was watching it. I did keep trying for a while and I read... some... number of the ones she marked very good or good, based on the comments and summaries, but I kept getting bored and annoyed at the characters. It just wasn't grabbing me. Very disappointing because there would've been a lot to read. (A huge amount of the things on this spreadsheet are marked bad or sub-mid even by her, and I think she is in general more forgiving in judging quality than I am even though unlike me she never reads things that seem kinda bad or mediocre to her for fun. And she has never gone archive-spelunking or read directly from the tag: she ONLY reads from recs and bookmarks. There's no control to test it here, but I think this bears out my personal conviction that there is a 0% increase in quality from recs and bookmarks (of random people that you don't know as opposed to someone vetted and trusted) vs. the slushpile (the entire content of the archive at random)).

A couple of weeks ago I saw a post on Tumblr that said something like, paraphrased, "There's a very popular notion that in the past all literature was good quality compared to now, but that's not true. This is survivorship bias. The stuff we still know and read in the present day is the good stuff, but a vast quantity of bad and mediocre stuff is lost to time." Someone responded by linking to The Westminster Detective Library, a project investigating the earliest history of the detective fiction genre. Apparently the professor who began it was initially inspired by a conviction that Poe's Murders in the Rue Morgue was not actually the first detective short story based on features of its writing which in his opinion betrayed the signs of a genre history. The website contains transcribed public-domain detective fiction that was published in American magazines before the first Sherlock Holmes story's publication. I have been enjoying reading through it chronologically since I read the post. Reading in one genre is a bit like reading in one fandom, and reading very old fiction has several special points of interest to me because I love learning about history and culture in that way. Of course on the minus side, it isn't gay. But I'm getting fascinating glimpses of the history of the genre and the history of jurisprudence in both America and Britain. And although there is definitely mediocre and "sub-mid" writing published in the periodicals of the 18th-19th centuries, awash in silly cliches and carelessly proofread if at all, they are still slightly more filtered for legibility and literacy than the experience of reading modern fanfiction (even, as mentioned in the last paragraph, from recs lists and bookmarks, unless you have a supply of trusted and well-known reccers to follow. I sometimes come near tears remembering the days when I could always check what [personal profile] thefourthvine and [personal profile] norah were recommending, but I can't blame them for the decline, either, because I was generally reading and at least bookmarking if not reccing just as productively at the time).

The other thing that has happened to affect my reading is that my little sister's high school best friend got engaged and invited my sister to her engagement party in Florida, which is going to be "Gatsby-themed". The 1920s is possibly my single oldest hyperfixation, dating from before the age of 10, and it's the historical period that I know and care the most about. For the past ten years or so the term "Gatsby" has, consequently, inspired me with the most intense rage and irritation, because its popularity after the movie version of The Great Gatsby flooded the internet with so much loathesomely inaccurate "information" about and imagery of the 1920s as to actually make it harder to find real information, and nearly impossible to filter out this dreck. So my sister began shopping for her Engagement Party Outfit, which is supposed to be "Gatsby"-themed, and I am the permanent primary audience for this (just as she is the permanent primary audience any time I am planning outfits or considering my wardrobe). This has led me to reading 1920s magazines online from the Internet Archive and HathiTrust - initially the middle-class fashion magazine McCall's; then also Vogue and Harper's Bazar (much more pretentious and bourgeois). I tried to branch out into interior design magazines of the same period (House & Garden and Better Homes & Gardens), but it has been harder to find scans of them. I find 1920s romantic fiction (serialized copiously in all these magazines) much less readable and enjoyable than the 1920s detective fiction which I am more familiar with (I've read plenty of it thanks to my interest in Golden Age detective stories)... but I've also learned a lot more physical and aesthetic details about women's fashion and interiors from the romantic fiction, which makes me think I perhaps need to seek out more of it.

.

5 Jun 2025 09:00 pm
cimorene: The words "It don't mean a thing" hand-drawn in black on white (jazz)
"I never know what I mean in my telegrams—especially those I send from America."

—Henry James, The Portrait of a Lady
cimorene: A small bronze table lamp with triple-layered orange glass shades (stylish)
“Have you read anything interesting lately, Gregory?” said Geraldine.

“No. No improper books have come my way. And I am too young to read anything suitable for me. If I don’t have to hide my books from my mother, I can’t take any interest in them.”

—Ivy Compton-Burnett, Men and Wives
cimorene: medieval painting of a person dressed in red tunic and green hood playing a small recorder in front of a fruit tree (medieval)
After reading the introduction to Scott's The Talisman, I was kind of like ... Whoa Richard the Lionheart was somewhat horrible? I only knew about him previously from like. Robin Hood. And Ivanhoe, which is almost the same thing. (In retrospect it's not surprising that these sources were not very reliable.)

Now that I've read a bunch of articles on Wikipedia I know that historians debate, but he is widely considered arguably a bad king and not great guy, although definitely a very good warrior and general. And he did punish anti-semitic rioters one time. But other than that, there's little to be said for him except that his brother John was worse.

Scott was a fan, but his introduction doesn't really have any more to say in his favor, just basically: He was brave! and He was super into the Crusade! The latter may argue for his emotions and conviction of purpose, but I can't count it as a positive overall.

All that said, clearly people are not reading The Talisman, or there would be way more Richard I/Saladin on AO3.
cimorene: An art nouveau floral wallpaper in  greens and blues (wild)
‘For the day is waxing old, and here meseemeth in this dim hall there are words crossing in the air about us—words spoken in days long ago, and tales of old time, that keep egging me on to do my will and die, because that is all that the world hath for a valiant man; and to such words I would not hearken, for in this hour I have no will to die, nor can I think of death.’


‘Now, lads, the night weareth and the guest is weary: therefore whoso of you hath in him any minstrelsy, now let him make it, for later on it shall be over-late.’


‘Now were I fain to have a true tale out of him, but it is little likely that anything shall come of my much questioning; and it is ill forcing a young man to tell lies.’


He laughed and said: ‘Thou didst not doubt but that if we met, thou mightest do with me as thou wouldest?’

‘So it is,’ she said, ‘that I doubted it little.’


[T]he stony neck sank into another desolate miry heath still falling toward the east, but whose further side was walled by a rampart of crags cleft at their tops into marvellous-shapes, coal-black, ungrassed and unmossed. Thitherward the hound led straight, and Gold-mane followed wondering: as he drew near them he saw that they were not very high, the tallest peak scant fifty feet from the face of the heath.

They made their way through the scattered rocks at the foot of these crags, till, just where the rock-wall seemed the closest, the way through the stones turned into a path going through it skew-wise; and it was now so clear a path that belike it had been bettered by men’s hands. Down thereby Face-of-god followed the hound, deeming that he was come to the gates of the Shadowy Vale, and the path went down steeply and swiftly.
cimorene: A woman sitting on a bench reading a book in front of a symmetrical opulent white-and-gold hotel room (studying)
I accidentally deleted the last William Morris book in my to-reread list from my phone and never got around to sending it back.

I started Walter Scott's The Talisman, because it's one of his few novels set in the middle ages, but there's some racism that's hard to swallow. There is a major Kurdish character, a knight under Saladin, who is... friends? With our Norman Scottish protagonist. The portrayal is not unsympathetic. I think Scott is doing his best to be even-handed, but like Catholicism, Islam just seems factually wrong and evil etc etc to him, and its adherents who are good guys are unfortunately misled. It's... hard to read. In retrospect, I'm surprised by how much he didn't dislike Judaism, in comparison.

Also started The King of Elfland's Daughter by Lord Dunsany. I read this as a teenager but remembered nothing. The narrative voice is quaint and charming. It's not really gripping me though.

No progress in Le Morte d'Arthur (Malory) or The Idylls of the King (Tennyson). The latter is more readable, comparatively, but I just don't really like reading verse. Also I did make some progress in The Faerie Queene (Spenser), and one verse narrative at a time is plenty.

Speaking of verse narratives, I still haven't made any more progress in the Wilson translation of Seneca's plays. (But the translations aren't in verse!) I might just have to skip Oedipus. I hate him for some reason.

I guess now I should actually reread all of Murderbot again, since I can't remember all the details and the show is starting to air. That should be comparatively quick though! I have the last Katherine Addison waiting and haven't gotten around to picking it up.

With all these things that I'm feeling decidedly unenthused about, I instead read the whole part of Jordanes' ancient history of the Goths that deals with wars with Asian invaders and then the entirety of Hervor's/Heidrek's saga, including the ancient poem called The Battle of the Goths and the Huns. (This is the only surviving medieval saga that deals with Gothic tribes in mainland Europe, and Jordanes' is the only other ancient source with relevance to Morris's The Roots of the Mountains.) I had made all the posts about that book which I had in mind when reading it, but yesterday I found a link on Tumblr to these two great essays about the context, history, and implications of the racism of Tolkien orcs/goblins by James Mendez Hodes (he doesn't mention Morris/ROTM or the specific borrowing from Jordanes alleged in Seaman's introduction to ROTM, but these links in the chain are immaterial to the argument): Orcs, Britons, and the Martial Race Myth, Part I: A Species Built for Racial Terror. content warnings: racism, colonialism/imperialism, cultural conflation, sexism, sexual violence, anger & Orcs, Britons, and the Martial Race Myth, Part II: They're Not Human. These essays totally opened my eyes to a missing link in my understanding of the background of the racist portrayal of the Dusky Men - one I wouldn't have missed if I'd reread Said's Orientalism, which I probably should've. The gender aspect of the ROTM Huns is riffing on the extreme cultural openness and intermarriage habits of the Mongols, whose invasions were much later - 13th century, long after the christianization and settlement of the germanic tribes and the fall of the Roman empire. (More on the Mongols' real culture and the stereotypes in western culture surrounding them in his posts!) So that gives me something else to research. Maybe I actually will eventually form a coherent theory of what is going on with all the gender roles in this book!
cimorene: Cartoon of 80s She-Ra with her sword (she-ra)
[H]e saw a slender glittering warrior come forth from the door [...], who stood for a moment looking round about, and then came lightly and swiftly toward him; and lo! it was the Sun-beam, with a long hauberk over her kirtle falling below her knees, a helm on her head and plated shoes on her feet.

—William Morris, The Roots of the Mountains


Mentions of this book before I read it indicated to me that it was the inspiration behind several chunks of The Lord of the Rings for Tolkien, one of these being the "warrior women". There is a woman who swears herself to the war-god as a result of being disappointed in love, and some other echoes of Eowyn's story discussed in my previous post on the subject, The romances of Morris's Roots of the Mountains as forerunners of those in LOTR. But saying that The Roots of the Mountains' fighting women inspired LOTR, though possibly true, is quite misleading, because there is so much more warrior woman in The Roots of the Mountains.

In The Roots of the Mountains, Victorian socialist and medieval fanboy William Morris created a fantasy version of pre-Christian central european Gothic tribes in an idyllic egalitarian agrarian society where women hold political influence and freely fight in war against barbaric colonizing enslavers.

This fantasy society isn't closely based on any sources - the nearest is the bits of the poem Hlöðskviða or "The Battle of the Goths and Huns" preserved in a 13th century Icelandic "legendary saga" (fornaldarsaga) (ie not a historical saga; though the poem doubtless has its origin in some real poems/songs) - and while the image of the Germanic warrior woman or Valkyrie certainly exists in Norse and germanic folklore, Morris's world in ROTM goes far beyond that. Read more... )

Of the three female main characters (out of five) in The Roots of the Mountains, one is The World's Greatest Archer, typically a woodswoman and huntress, and a fierce fighting maiden all the time; one is a young athlete who was always skilled at fighting and makes a vow to go to war as a result of her broken heart, but throws herself gloriously into the fighting as a leader of the people; and one is a wise political leader who refuses to take up arms herself, but goes into the battle in full armor with her people.

‘And when I go down to the battle,’ said he, ‘shalt thou be sorry for our sundering?’

She said: ‘There shall be no sundering; I shall wend with thee.’

Said he: ‘And if I were slain in the battle, would’st thou lament me?’

‘Thou shalt not be slain,’ she said.


There are still plenty of women who don't go to battle in The Roots of the Mountains, too, and their choice is valid! But the ability to fight and the will to fight are fully accepted and fairly widespread for women throughout the four societies he portrays, (1) the Burgdalers (town dwellers), (2) the shepherds, (3) the woodsfolk, and (4) the Children of the Wolf, who have been living hidden in Mirkwood, the forest which lies between the dalesmen and the eastern invaders, and protecting the border from their SECRET BASE in the hidden Shadowy Vale.

First we learn of the fighting women of the Children of the Wolf - a mysterious, rather fantastical people, throwbacks to the heroic age, and thus possibly more apt to exotic things like warrior maidens:

Then the Sun-beam spake to Gold-mane softly, and told him how this song was made by a minstrel concerning a foray in the early days of their first abode in Shadowy Vale, and how in good sooth a maiden led the fray and was the captain of the warriors:

‘Erst,’ she said, ‘this was counted as a wonder; but now we are so few that it is no wonder though the women will do whatsoever they may.’


(In The House of the Wolfings - that is, before the Wolfings came to the Shadowy Vale, and at least a couple of hundred years before ROTM - the army is made up mostly of men, but Read more... )) The Sun-beam's foster sister Bow-may intended from the first to fight, and takes the first opportunity to ask Face-of-god where he got his extremely good armor, and if she can have some:Read more... )

But next we learn that the settled town-dwelling society of Burgdale, which at first seemed like a traditional early medieval setting, enthusiastically accepts the vow of the Bride to dedicate herself to the war god and fight in the battle for her people, and that many other young maidens are inspired to follow her example:Read more... )

And finally when the fighters muster we see how many fighting women there are in the whole host: apparently eight, counting the Bride, out of 1 581 fighters from the Dale (Woodlanders and Folk of the Vine ie grape-growers); 50 women out of 235 Children of the Wolf. A sample of the muster scenes: Read more... )

Of the female fighters, we later learn that another besides the Bride was injured, and Bow-May's hand gets hurt and her bow broken, but she keeps fighting. Morris also portrays them fighting heroically alongside the male warriors in his battle scenes: Read more... )
cimorene: Photo of a woman in a white dress walking away next to a massive window with ornate gothic carved wooden embellishment (distance)
  • “[Y]ou twa will be as thick as three in a bed an ance ye forgather.” [You two will be as thick as three in a bed once you get together.]


  • “Then the gentleman is a scholar, David?”

    “I'se uphaud him a scholar,” answered David: “he has a black coat on, or a brown ane, at ony-rate.” [I'd bet he's a scholar; he has a black coat on, or a brown one, at any rate.]

    “Is he a clergyman?”

    “I am thinking no, for he looked after his horse's supper before he spoke o' his ain,” replied mine host.


  • “I wish him no worse lesson,” said the Sacristan, “than to go swimming merrily down the river with a ghost behind, and Kelpies, night-crows, and mud-eels, all waiting to have a snatch at him."


  • The Scottish laws, which were as wisely and judiciously made as they were carelessly and ineffectually executed,


  • “Alas! sir,” answered Dame Elspeth, “he is but too prompt, an you talk of promptitude, at any thing that has steel at one end of it, and mischief at the other.”


  • "He is a considerate lord the Lord Abbot.”

    “And weel he likes a saft seat to his hinder end,” said Tibb; “I have seen a belted baron sit on a bare bench, and find nae fault." [And well he likes a soft seat for his hind end.]


  • “And would he fight with Foster in the Church's quarrel?”

    “On any quarrel, or upon no quarrel whatever."

cimorene: closeup of four silver fountain pen nibs on white with "cimorene" written above in black cancellaresca corsiva script (pen)
This duology by the author of Waverley and Ivanhoe was published in 1820 and concerns the progress of the Protestant reformation in Scotland:

  • The Monastery is set in the 1550s and centers on the takeover by Protestants of the lands of Melrose Abbey (a 12th c. monastery) and the conversion to Protestantism of a fictional noble family. The family's guardian spirit, a sprite called the White Lady who speaks entirely in rhyme, interferes chaotically and helps bring about the happy ending of a romance, the conversion of the young couple and their vindication and installation in a Castle, and the downfall of the abbey. There is a lot of comedy of manners and minor adventures in this novel which I greatly enjoyed and will likely reread sometime; but the surrounding political violence is too real and chilling to go over lightly, so the mood felt uneven.


  • The Abbey is a sequel about a young man adopted (sort of) and raised (for about ten years) by the couple who were united in The Monastery: a Protestant knight close in the service of the bastard half-brother of Mary Queen of Scots who was instrumental in deposing her in favor of her infant son, and his wife, the scion of the ancient and noble house of Avenel whose castle they inhabit. The book is about this youth recovering from two sets of very bad parenting and outgrowing the violence, impulsivity, pride, and petulance which resulted from them... by being sent as a representative of BOTH the Protestant government AND the Catholic conspiracy in support of Mary, Queen of Scots to Castle Lochleven where she is being imprisoned. Read more... ) Roland is a purely fictional character, but the surrounding history is real, and it's pretty good; but the fact that so much of the interest is the real people makes the protagonist feel pastede on. In short, I think there was a better book hiding in there that was simply a novelization about Mary Queen of Scots at Lochleven without an invented protagonist and definitely without the ties to the other book. Also the child abuse plot is not saved by the fact that Scott knew it was what he was portraying. )


The Protestant Reformation famously, along with the destruction of the political power and wealth of the Catholic church as an institution, produced the physical destruction of numerous beautiful buildings and works of art: in many churches this took the form of removing statues, destroying carvings and stained glass windows, and painting over the wall paintings. But there were also many buildings that were torn down, burned, etc. This mob-violence aspect of the Reformation is presented in both novels in a way that is quite interesting, and succeeds in showing the issue's complexity, I think.

The introduction to The Monastery already warns the reader that Scott approaches the whole project from a perspective of hating Catholicism. Reading this, though, did not exactly prepare me for the prejudices of these novels. Hating the medeival Catholic church, the corrupt institution whose power had a stranglehold on Europe (and indeed much of the world) at the time of the Protestant reformation seemed like a reasonable middle-of-the-road position to me. I wasn't prepared for Scott apparently hating Catholicism:

the Catholic, defending a religion which afforded little interest to the feelings, had, in his devotion to the cause he espoused, more of the head than of the heart,

—The Monastery


Don't mistake me: he doesn't hate Catholic people or make them villains. But he views the entire project of struggling for Catholic control of a country to be inherently corrupt and evil, and all the people sincerely engaged in these projects are sadly deluded, or laughably illogical, if sincere. The monks in The Monastery couldn't present a more stark contrast to the monks in the Brother Cadfael novels: he has set two sincerely religious and moral, intelligent, admirable men among them, and the others, however sympathetic, are lazy, cowardly, intellectually negligble social parasites (the monastery is a feudal landowner and its monks are supported by the labor of indentured peasants, until the Protestant troops reposess its lands at the end of the first book).
cimorene: An art nouveau floral wallpaper in  greens and blues (wild)
People have noted the similarities in the romance plots (among other elements) found in LOTR with those from William Morris's 1889 novels The House of the Wolfings and especially The Roots of the Mountains, which helped spark my curiosity to read them. The mentions in the Wikipedia article about Morris's influence on Tolkien and in Seaman's intro to ROTM are of the Aragorn-Arwen-Eowyn love triangle and the character trajectory of Eowyn, but there wasn't much detail. But I found more than just that!

Mortal-Immortal romance in The House of the Wolfings

I didn't see any mention of HOTW (the first book in the series) in association with Tolkien, only ROTM. However, while there is a love triangle - or actually a love pentacle - of cross-cultural romances in ROTM, there are not any gods or immortals on the page. There is a callback to the idea: when the protagonist meets the mysterious and nomadic People of the Wolf (forest-dwelling throwbacks to the age of heroes who dedicate themselves to protecting the borders of the sheltered little agrarian civilization), he is so awed at first that he imagines they (particularly his future wife and her brother) may be gods or spirits. But in The House of the Wolfings, the love story is between the brave war leader of the Wolfings and an immortal nature spirit - a dís - who wants to preserve his life and asks him to wear an enchanted hauberk or coat of mail. Read more... )

Love Pentacle in The Roots of the Mountains

As far as parallels to the romances in LOTR, ROTM offers: a woman disappointed in love who goes to war (two of them); a noble hero who reflects the past glory of his clan in a cross-cultural romance with a wise and beautiful woman of an even more noble background than his; and one of the disappointed-in-love warrior women being wounded in battle and having a dramatic cross-cultural romance with another brave warrior/political ruler character. (Also - and this isn't part of the romances - a character who like is just kind of. Hawkeye. Her entire thing is just being an amazing, unironically unbelievably the best, acknowledged master archer who is almost supernatural. She is one of the pentacle though.) Before I explain these claims, I must briefly introduce the five main characters.

  1. Protagonist and hero Face-of-god, alderman's son of the House of the Face in the small walled city of Burgdale. Read more... )

  2. His childhood sweetheart and (at the beginning of the novel) promised bride, the Bride, eldest daughter of the House of the Steer. She is athletic and beautiful (like at least one heroine in every Morris novel, her description is recognizably that of Morris's wife, Jane, whose likeness is preserved in many of the paintings of Dante Gabriel Rosetti). Read more... )

  3. The war-leader of the House of the Wolf, Folk-might, who has loved the Bride ever since he glimpsed her and wants to fight Face-of-God for falling in love with Folk-might's sister instead. Read more... )

  4. Folk-might's sister and Face-of-god's new love, the Sun-beam, the young political strategist of the House of the Wolf.Read more... )

  5. The Sun-beam and Folk-might's foster-sister Bow-may of the House of the Wolf, unironically the best archer imaginable, possibly a bit supernatural about it, and a blithe, jolly shieldmaiden who knows no fear. She is a little bit hopelessly in love with Face-of-god, but she's resigned to it. Read more... )



A woman goes to war after being disappointed in love.

For Eowyn going to war is an act of rebellion which she has to accomplish by dressing as a man and running away. That makes her gesture far more momentous than that of the Bride, who literally does decide to go to war because she is heartbroken, Read more... ) and shocks her people by doing it, but doesn't break any norms; in fact there are quite a few other women from Burgdale and the shepherds and woodsfolk who go to battle, and an even larger share of the women of the House of the Wolf. Far from running away, the Bride actually stands up at the folkmote and announces her intentions to the people, and thereafter becomes a sort of figurehead and morale-booster, inspiring other young women to fight: Read more... )

(Two of them)

Bow-may also goes to war and is disappointed in love, but it doesn't really count because she was going to go to war either way. You can't keep her away from the war. However, she is still lowkey tragic about it: Read more... )

A noble hero who reflects the past glory of his people finds himself in a cross-cultural romance with a wise, beautiful woman of an even more noble background than his.

Face-of-god grows from a youth to a man during this novel and is well-liked by the people before he is chosen to be their war-leader at the folkmote, but over the course of the novel others remark on his growth and likeness to a hero of bygone days. The Sun-beam, meanwhile, comes from the House of the Wolf, the clan who led the entire Gothic peoples a few hundred years ago in HOTW, defeating an attempted Roman invasion. Read more... )

A warrior woman disappointed in love is wounded in battle and has a dramatic cross-cultural romance with another brave warrior/political ruler character.

As mentioned, Folk-might actually falls in love at first sight after glimpsing the Bride from afar while on a covert fact-finding mission to Burgdale, but they become engaged after she is wounded in battle. Read more... )



Footnotes:
1. Týr (but would be spelled slightly different in Gothic - I found a source of comparative names in various germanic languages including Gothic on one of my 4 am googling-names-from-this-book binges, but now I can't find it again)
2. Likely Dagr, or possibly his father Dellingr (but would be spelled slightly different in Gothic)
cimorene: Olive green willow leaves on a parchment background (foliage)
In my early posts about William Morris's The Roots of the Mountains I raised issues of anachronisms (here and here) and this led to a conversation with [personal profile] mildred_of_midgard that was really fun about brasilwood and medieval trade! Also, ultimately she made a very good point about my statements relating to dating these novels, namely: they are not exactly meant to be datable, because they aren't really historical fiction in the traditional sense. Read more... )

So yes, it's completely legit to observe that dating their events, or identifying contradictions in the dating thereof, is beside the point to the same extent that this is true of medieval romances or epic poetry. However, even though that's true, it doesn't mean that there's no value in investigating the real history behind the folklore. Even if the main value is fun. And in my case, picturing the clothing, because I'm into medieval clothing. ) So anyway, what CAN be pinned down about the time/setting of HOTW and ROTM?

  • HOTW deals with a massive alliance of germanic tribes successfully repelling a Roman invasion from their forest home of Mirkwood, which is definitely somewhere on the continent, but that's all we got. Goths have already joined the Roman army, but this is evidently only a recent development, and these traitor-Goths are responsible for leading the Romans to their homeland. At the beginning of HOTW the Romans are still a distant rumor, basically new to most of the members of these tribes. So it likely takes place quite early in the history of Roman-germanic conflicts, perhaps somewhere between the 2nd century BCE and the 1st century CE.


  • All the peoples in HOTW dwell in wooden longhouses, which, accurate. You can read on Wikipedia about how Tolkien just copied Meduseld from HOTW and therefore introduced the word "louvres", which historians later accused Tolkien of being anachronistic for because the word 'louvres' wasn't present in Anglo-Saxon England, lol. Yes okay Wikipedia, point taken. I'm trying not to be quite that silly.


  • ROTM takes place many generations, perhaps a few hundred years, after The House of the Wolfings. The tribe of the Wolfings live in the forest, protecting the boundaries of a small settlement of farmers and shepherds in a peaceful valley at the foot of the mountains. The shepherds and farmers are allied germanic tribes and all are still pagan. If Wikipedia is to be believed, the Goths converted to Christianity in the late 4th century AD and were one of the first germanic peoples to do so. This is covered extensively in Jordanes (Morris was certainly familiar with it, and drew on it for these books otherwise, although that's no guarantee he intended to treat it as canon).


  • The settled germanic tribes in ROTM still preserve a basically egalitarian society based on seasonal Thing assemblies in a stone circle ("[In] Finland [so-called "court stones"] are found in Eura, Ulvila and Kokemäki. They date typically [to] during the Pre-Roman Iron Age and the Roman Iron Age. In Sweden, they are called Domarringar (judge circles), Domkretsar (judge circles) or Domarsäten (judge seats). In Finland they are called Käräjäkivet (court stones). In some places in [the] Nordic countries they were used [for Thing assemblies] until [the] 17th century"), but they have hereditary chieftains now instead of their former method of elected war leaders from HOTW.


  • The society of ROTM have a fortified city with stone houses. I don't think this can be used to date anything though, because as far as I know, there is no stone architecture from pagan germanic tribes currently available to architectural historians. I think this was just Morris letting his fancy run away with him, to be frank.


(Regarding my two posts about anachronisms: if ROTM is intended to be set in Crimea, which is possible, the brasilwood dye is probably fine even as far back as the 200s or 300s CE; but if you want to use the existence of the bowed string instruments to date it the whole thing would have to be pushed forward to around the 10th century CE, when like, almost everyone was converted to Christianity: they established the Archbishopric of Uppsala in Sweden in 1164 and that's the furthest Northwest they had to go. Yeah, I'm not serious about dating it then. Possibly he just didn't care but probably he was just plain wrong about the bowed string instrument.)

I was originally (before looking up a ton of stuff) thinking 5th or 6th century AD might be the intended ballpark target time period, because there were many more Asian incursions into germanic tribal territory in those centuries; but that is actually way too late for them to all be pagans. Of course, Morris might have just kept them pagan because he loved germanic paganism and was a Norse saga fanboy, while still imagining his setting in the 5th or 6th centuries. But on the whole - and this conclusion is definitely pretty much vibes-based -, I am thinking 3rd-4th century CE for ROTM and 1st century BCE or CE for HOTW. To the extent that that is valid. Which is like... maybe roughly 20%.
cimorene: The words "I've never seen anything like that before" hand lettered in medieval-reminiscent style (wow)
When it comes to the five things I identified yesterday that I need to deal with, I have done nothing in the last two days! Yesterday after I dusted, swept, and vacuumed, the benzo suddenly took effect, and I felt like all my limbs turned to cooked spaghetti. So I napped the rest of the day/evening and snuggled with Sipuli. Today I thought about taking my ADHD meds and... decided not to and snuggled with Sipuli again. And read.

I finished rereading the translated original The Story of the Beauty and the Beast by Gabrielle-Suzanne Barbot de Villeneuve, a novel which is the oldest known variant of the fairy tale Beauty and the Beast. (Obviously it is derived from the Animal as Bridegroom folk tale type, though, to say nothing of the myth of Cupid and Psyche.) Yeah, another French lady - Beaumont - rewrote the novel in 1756 and removed the last two thirds (which are all concerned with absolutely bonkers fairy lore), making it much more boring, and the popular versions all derived from there.

I have reread it now for the sake of the bonkers fairy lore.

My favorite part of the bonkers lore that I had forgotten is that Villeneuve's fairy kingdom (which actually is in the air, not like, under mounds like Celtic folklore, or in an alternate dimension; her fairies seem to all be spirits of the air) are antis.

Junior fairies - either fairies under 1000 years old, or who have not Become a Serpent, a dangerous trial which unlocks their powers early but risks death - are only permitted to romantically or sexually ally themselves with beings of exactly equal powers to themselves. Absolutely no power imbalances allowed!!!

After the age of 1000 (or upon successful completion of The Ordeal of becoming a serpent) they can do more things, and are allowed to marry whomever, including puny mortals. (It's a plot point because Beauty is the child of an illegal junior-fairy/human marriage who had to be secretly exchanged for a merchant's child for her safety.)
cimorene: An art nouveau floral wallpaper in  greens and blues (wild)
I did finish The Roots of the Mountains and The House of the Wolfings, and I did get quite interested in the romantic plots and depictions of women fighting in war therein, which certainly do seem to have inspired LOTR. But another issue fascinated me alongside it, namely the orcs.

For context, my opinion, prior to my recent reading of and about these two Morris books, of the whole issue of orcs and goblins in LOTR was that they are essentially racist. I think any attempt to portray a humanoid fantasy species that are inherently evil would be inevitably (with the possible exception of a hypothetical situation where exploring and deconstructing that exact issue was the whole point). I had garnered the impression that the dehumanification of orcs was done with the intention of making it less agonizing/harrowing/tragic, to allow the Good characters to be fighting and killing a depersonalized Evil, but that Tolkien himself (eventually?) even was aware of (? or uncomfortable with?) the implications. (I set aside the film portrayal, which made it worse, but I'm just discussing the books here.) But I haven't investigated that issue or the scholarship about it that I recall, just read posts and essays in fandom and online about it. (I know there is scholarship about it, but I haven't looked.)

Recently I did a websearch about William Morris's HOTW/ROTM and discovered (as mentioned in a couple of previous posts) some indications that these books, specifically, had inspired bits of LOTR, and my curiosity determined me to finish wading through the boringness/rhyming poetry of HOTW in order to finally read ROTM. And I read it! Part of what I found in that websearch was the Wikipedia article called William Morris's influence on Tolkien, which is a bit of a grab bag but included this:

Morris describes the Dusky Men as "long-armed like apes", "as foul as swine", fighting with crooked swords, and forming "a stumbling jostling throng".[24] Massey comments that their nature is dehumanised, so they can be slaughtered "with impunity", and that Tolkien modelled the Orcs on them.[24]

[24] Massey 2007, pp. 130–132.

Massey, Kelvin Lee (2007). The Roots of Middle-Earth: William Morris's Influence upon J. R. R. Tolkien. University of Tennessee (PhD thesis).


And then also, in Graham Seaman's 2003 Introduction to The Roots of the Mountains (also mentioned in a previous post), this: Read more... ) Therefore, I started reading the book after these two passages with the impression that the "Huns" or Dusky Men of Morris's ROTM were going to be a fantasy race: definitely not human - acting like zombies, incapable of breeding with people (and also inherently evil). Please note: I do not unquestioningly accept that quote from Jordanes and what it is apparently arguing, but I wanted to investigate the matter further myself. But even if I didn't swallow the argument whole, I did still expect this passage to be factual - that is, for the Dusky Men to actually be unambiguously, in the text, a fantasy race, not just human beings, who are inherently evil and all that jazz.

But they aren't.

Surprise!

So now I have to deal with what they actually ARE in the text before I come back to whether Jordanes, et. al. absolves Morris and Tolkien, or to what it could mean.

Are the Huns unambiguously inhuman fantasy monsters? No. Are they like orcs, goblins, or zombies? No. They are described as ugly, short-necked, small-eyed, etc., but none of the physical descriptions go beyond the standard anti-Asian racism discussed so extensively in Said's Orientalism. They are guys who are not as smart or good at fighting as the heroic germanic tribesmen - that's why they formed a stumbling, jostling throng in that quote: because they weren't all drilled and prepared to take up orderly formations and obey the orders of their commanders. They were just panicking. Can they interbreed with humans? Yes. And they do. Are there half-breeds to deal with? Yes. They are either raised as Dusky Men or murdered as infants by them. So, then, is it possible that they are actually human? Again, not really, if you take the testimony of the various characters who relate exposition about them as true (and it is true within the story, I would say), but I don't think that's intentional. Here is a small selection of the most relevant quotations about them:Read more... )

So to sum up: ROTM's Dusky Men are an all-male, all-warrior parasitical society. All its citizens are warriors who do no other labor, and they keep a proportionally massive enslaved population, whom they abuse egregiously. Their natural children by their captives usually resemble their fathers but not always, and are not infrequently born with severe cognitive disabilities; of the apparently healthy offspring, the male ones are raised as Dusky Men and the female ones murdered. They travel in groups, but they are not nomadic: they look for a comfortable place they can exploit and move in there to stay. Further groups of Dusky Men arrive over time, but this seems to be the result of having exhausted natural resources or grown too numerous for their previous residences, or from being driven out in war.

They very definitely aren't the historical Huns, because they don't fight on horseback, and don't even seem to move their people on horseback, and they don't arrive with herds of livestock. (Also we know the Huns didn't practice universal female infanticide.) (If Wikipedia is to be believed, Jordanes wrote about the Hunnic Altziagiri tribe's summer and winter pasturage in Crimea, so this lack of herding is a deliberate departure on Morris's part: he puts quite a lot into emphasizing the Dusky Men's refusal to do any labor at all, which is certainly his socialism showing. More on this later.) They also very definitely aren't a possible depiction of any other real civilization in history, because of Read more... ) But given that the Victorian English reader would not find these circumstances implausible, I think they are still compatible with intent to portray a race of people, not a race of orcs or monsters. Read more... )

When you consider that ROTM is a novel from the point of view of the Goths, it is easier to accept that some parts - like the accusations of ugliness - might represent racism on the part of the characters, and not necessarily the author. In other words, the Dusky Men might be intended as a portrayal of a plausible human society of total assholes, whose assholery is in their behavior - enslaving and oppressing other people so that they can be the idle rich, and also sadism and cruelty - and whose appearances are described in all the classic racist cliches from Said's Orientalism because that is, realistically, how medieval central European societies repeatedly described people from Asia. The descriptions are xenophobic and reflective of the worst traditions of Orientalist racism, but they are completely in character for his text, which is essentially a fictional medieval history - it poses as the kind of history composed on the basis of oral folklore, with many appeals to what the fictional oral tradition says, with levels of detail comparable to epic poetry. (Morris was a huge fan of epic poetry and translated a lot of the prose Edda, some of the poetic Edda, Beowulf, and various medieval French romances into English.) Roughly, this book seems to be answering the question, "What if there existed a bundle of orally-transmitted song and poetry about the length of the Iliad about this bit of the history of the Goths (that particular racist one from Jordanes up above, I mean) and the bits around it, and somebody had translated it into graceful and beautiful prose, what might that look like?"

This has accounted for sources and motivations behind a lot of choices here, but it hasn't really settled why his Dusky Men differ in the ways they do from what you might expect of the, you know, horrible enslaving Asian conquering horde in the middle ages. And the answer to all of those whys is probably ultimately "Morris's passionate socialist beliefs", although the connection between those beliefs and the outcome on the page is open to multiple interpretations.

The enslaving Dusky Men's monstrous refusal of labour - which isn't just about becoming social parasites, but is a choice which was inherently destructive of one's moral character and happiness, according to Morris's worldview - is clearly related to socialism. We can detect reflections of growing capitalism, the transatlantic slave trade, the oppression of the English working classes, etc. But it's harder to diagnose the universal female infanticide. Is this a choice driven by titillation, essentially - an attempt merely to make them more alien, more horrible? ...No. Spoiler: it's probably because for Morris, socialism includes and implies female equality.

Morris is not a perfect feminist, but his novels, his nonfiction, and his actions as a business owner and political activist were all strongly in support of what we would today call feminism. He believed that women were men's moral and intellectual equals, and his vision of a future socialist utopia is one of full gender equality. In his socialist fantasies women and men share equally in the joyful, physically and morally edifying physical labor of agriculture and figure equally as masters of all the arts and crafts; in his medieval pastiche novels women figure as heroes, warriors and decision-makers, though not always to the same degree. So. That's probably why. Maybe I'll have figured out a theory to explain the connection better by the time I've written the other essay I need to write about the women warriors and politicians in this book.

reading

21 Apr 2025 12:49 am
cimorene: Illustration of a woman shushing and a masked harlequin leaning close to hear (gossip)
I finished reading The Abbot (Scott) and The Roots of the Mountains (Morris), but I haven't been able to take time to compose posts about them because I saved a ton of quotations and I really wanted to finish the sweater I've been knitting. I finished weaving in the ends today, so tomorrow I can block it.

Also the remaining Emily Wilson translations I've got are Roman plays by Seneca, not Greek tragedies, and I'm not liking them as much. Also the book is a pdf which is always a pain. I've got another William Morris reread and another Walter Scott novel set in the middle ages to read queued up, but I'm taking a break to reread the original Villeneuve Beauty and the Beast, which I've been meaning to get around to for a while, because it has hilariously elaborate fairy lore backstory but I couldn't remember the specifics.
cimorene: A colorful wallpaper featuring curling acanthus leaves and small flowers (smultron ställe)
Oh no, not my guy William Morris putting a New World ingredient in Europe 700 years too early!

...came out of the house clad in a green kirtle and a gown of brazil, with a golden-hilted sword girt to her side.

—The Roots of the Mountains (1889), William Morris


brazil (plural brazils)

Noun. (obsolete) A red-orange dye obtained from brazil wood. [14th–17th c.]

ETA: this might be wrong! Thanks to [personal profile] mildred_of_midgard, I now know the Wiktionary entry quoted above was incomplete 😠 and didn't inform me that brasilwood was a commonly used source of pigment/dye throughout Europe in the high middle ages and came from East Asia, frequently Ceylon (present-day Sri Lanka). (Brazil, the country, was named for the wood, because a close relative — the plant now known as Brazil wood — was plentiful there before being exploited almost entirely away.) The question remains whether this trade really did go so far back, but it's not so implausible after all. Morris was likely familiar with the dye's usage after 1000 CE and extrapolating backwards, as with the fiddle which was definitely incorrect, but it is possible that the wood was present in the book's setting (probably the 4th - 5th c. CE, somewhere in the a Carpathian region - see Wikipedia Hlöðskviða (also Hlǫðskviða and Hlǫðsqviða), known in English as The Battle of the Goths and Huns and occasionally known by its German name Hunnenschlachtlied for discussion of the possible historical context of the Old Norse heroic poem on the subject).
cimorene: Photo of a woman in a white dress walking away next to a massive window with ornate gothic carved wooden embellishment (northanger abbey)
I know teenagers in reality are often foolish and prone to risky behavior and refusing to pay attention to guidance or instructions, but having always been extraordinarily cautious and timid, it's a quality I can't relate to and have difficulty even empathizing with.

Even a character who, like The Abbot's Roland Graeme, is 100% plausibly foolish, impulsive, violent, arrogant and daredevil — being 17 and spoiled by a horribly abusive combination of parental indulgence and neglect — is very difficult for me to read.

My patience with foolhardy risk-taking in narrative is very short before I start saying constantly, "This guy should have Darwin Awarded himself to death by now. Please let this one kill him. And on the plus side, if he died this time, I wouldn't have to read about any more of his infuriating decisions."

So the bad parenting retiring from the foreground has not made the book much more palatable so far.

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