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cimorenei might have been lying about the "stuff" in order to have three items in the title.
anyway, everybody else has talked a lot about the various stupidities of weir's actions in general throughout the series, or just weir in a broader, not-just-actions sense, and also the other thing i want to mention, so i doubt this post will be anything new, but i just feel like
i mean, there's a well-established science fiction tv tradition of the most valuable people risking their lives more, rather than less, than anybody else. and that's because if they kept the leaders safe and sent out redshirts, then the interesting things would be happening to the redshirts, which would mean either you have to have main characters who aren't actually doing the important things, or else your main characters have to be redshirts. i'm sure both approaches have been tried in the past, but it really isn't surprising that on the whole people want their hero to be constantly in and out of trouble, the smartest-bravest-fastest, and also to be in charge of other people, because protagonists=heroes and heroes have to have big dicks (metaphorically if they're female protagonists) and people with big dicks obviously just have to be in charge.
so in general and in principle, i'm not going to argue about sheppard and mckay being simultaneously put at great risk all the time. and although elizabeth usually stays behind safe, so that her going out into danger is something of a departure from the norm, i won't argue against it in principle either. obviously this is a universe where it's worth it to risk your leaders, even if they're really, really slow leaders who can't grasp the concept of time-dilation even after rodney has been explaining it for five minutes. (i'm sorry, it's not familiarity with science fiction that is missing here, because all you should need to hear is something like for every minute or so that passes here as much as twenty hours passes on the other side to grasp the concept, man, simple ratios, completely elementary school level math, and the multiplication shouldn't be beyond her or beckett either--not that i'm surprised, it isn't like they are usually more intelligent, i'm just pointing out another reason that i hate them.)
right. i'm not going to argue in principle against elizabeth being put out there in the field at risk, but in this specific instance, it was so stupid i was forced to yell at the computer screen*--at elizabeth herself and all the other characters present who went along with her.
i know that rodney was more focused on moving forward and getting the mission accomplished before john had to spend another christmas alone on the other side. it was even understandable that he was all johnjohnjohn, not to mention sweet. he tried to dissuade elizabeth from coming with them a couple of times, but in the end he was in a hurry and he didn't want to waste time arguing, especially with someone as dense as her.
number one, there wasn't a very good reason for her to go--of course they might run into some ancient needing read, but that could happen any time and there was no particular reason to think she was much more necessary for reading it right then. they even had an objective in mind--rodney knew where the power source was and he was confident he could shut it down. of course there was always the possibility it was booby-trapped and a sign in ancient on it might have said something like "don't disconnect the zpm without solving this math puzzle first or you die", but it wasn't an especially strong possibility.
and number two, there was every reason for elizabeth to stay outside. of the three ranking officers on atlantis, one was already in the field and one was on his way in, and if anything went wrong, which it so easily could have, they could have become stuck, or emerged greatly aged, or been killed or something. whatever bad things might potentially happen to them, wouldn't it have kind of sucked if those things happened to all three of atlantis's ranking officers? with elizabeth and john both gone caldwell would be absolutely obliged to take atlantis over under military rule--but without rodney to kick sense into him, he could easily fuck up a lot of things even with the best intentions in the galaxy. is he going to listen to zelenka? is zelenka going to be capable of holding the science mission together, keeping the city running and fighting for civilian interests? right.
*we're talking levels of rage usually this season associated only with dr mcdreamy trying to simultaneously have and eat his cake or george opening his mouth to say anything at all, both in grey's anatomy, which is completely a soap opera.
anyway, everybody else has talked a lot about the various stupidities of weir's actions in general throughout the series, or just weir in a broader, not-just-actions sense, and also the other thing i want to mention, so i doubt this post will be anything new, but i just feel like
i mean, there's a well-established science fiction tv tradition of the most valuable people risking their lives more, rather than less, than anybody else. and that's because if they kept the leaders safe and sent out redshirts, then the interesting things would be happening to the redshirts, which would mean either you have to have main characters who aren't actually doing the important things, or else your main characters have to be redshirts. i'm sure both approaches have been tried in the past, but it really isn't surprising that on the whole people want their hero to be constantly in and out of trouble, the smartest-bravest-fastest, and also to be in charge of other people, because protagonists=heroes and heroes have to have big dicks (metaphorically if they're female protagonists) and people with big dicks obviously just have to be in charge.
so in general and in principle, i'm not going to argue about sheppard and mckay being simultaneously put at great risk all the time. and although elizabeth usually stays behind safe, so that her going out into danger is something of a departure from the norm, i won't argue against it in principle either. obviously this is a universe where it's worth it to risk your leaders, even if they're really, really slow leaders who can't grasp the concept of time-dilation even after rodney has been explaining it for five minutes. (i'm sorry, it's not familiarity with science fiction that is missing here, because all you should need to hear is something like for every minute or so that passes here as much as twenty hours passes on the other side to grasp the concept, man, simple ratios, completely elementary school level math, and the multiplication shouldn't be beyond her or beckett either--not that i'm surprised, it isn't like they are usually more intelligent, i'm just pointing out another reason that i hate them.)
right. i'm not going to argue in principle against elizabeth being put out there in the field at risk, but in this specific instance, it was so stupid i was forced to yell at the computer screen*--at elizabeth herself and all the other characters present who went along with her.
i know that rodney was more focused on moving forward and getting the mission accomplished before john had to spend another christmas alone on the other side. it was even understandable that he was all johnjohnjohn, not to mention sweet. he tried to dissuade elizabeth from coming with them a couple of times, but in the end he was in a hurry and he didn't want to waste time arguing, especially with someone as dense as her.
number one, there wasn't a very good reason for her to go--of course they might run into some ancient needing read, but that could happen any time and there was no particular reason to think she was much more necessary for reading it right then. they even had an objective in mind--rodney knew where the power source was and he was confident he could shut it down. of course there was always the possibility it was booby-trapped and a sign in ancient on it might have said something like "don't disconnect the zpm without solving this math puzzle first or you die", but it wasn't an especially strong possibility.
and number two, there was every reason for elizabeth to stay outside. of the three ranking officers on atlantis, one was already in the field and one was on his way in, and if anything went wrong, which it so easily could have, they could have become stuck, or emerged greatly aged, or been killed or something. whatever bad things might potentially happen to them, wouldn't it have kind of sucked if those things happened to all three of atlantis's ranking officers? with elizabeth and john both gone caldwell would be absolutely obliged to take atlantis over under military rule--but without rodney to kick sense into him, he could easily fuck up a lot of things even with the best intentions in the galaxy. is he going to listen to zelenka? is zelenka going to be capable of holding the science mission together, keeping the city running and fighting for civilian interests? right.
*we're talking levels of rage usually this season associated only with dr mcdreamy trying to simultaneously have and eat his cake or george opening his mouth to say anything at all, both in grey's anatomy, which is completely a soap opera.
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(no subject)
Date: 30 Nov 2005 04:17 pm (UTC)Of course, Rodney, Ronon, and Teyla all act the same way (and Beckett too in this episode--huh) but it's not *their* job to make sure that the *entire expedition* is a success.
I was kind of annoyed with everyone in this episode, though, especially because they didn't get someone to translate the inscription before heading into the field, and because Rodney didn't look carefully at the video. So her behavior didn't stand out as much as it might have for me.
(no subject)
Date: 1 Dec 2005 05:39 pm (UTC)yeah, she seems much more genuine when she's cute and geeky--and she likes to be involved and seems hampered by the tasks of actual leadership. they seem to create a picture of someone who is only reluctantly a leader, a geek at heart--maybe a bit like sheppard only, uh, geekier. but they talk about her as, like, a natural-born, brilliant-gifted leader and diplomat.
...it really pisses me off how they never call her on anything. or beckett, either. i can't remember where i was reading about how there seems to be a dividing line and some characters (teyla, beckett, weir) are presented as 'good' and 'adults', and their actions are presented as justified and justifiable even when those actions are essentially the same as the ones which are presented as transgressive or childish on sheppard's or rodney's part. beckett and weir and never seem to face consequences for their mistakes and nobody even seems to notice that they have made mistakes.
...although point about everybody else being fairly dumb in this episode too; but i loved rodney through most of it. after they lost sheppard he did exactly the right stuff.
(no subject)
Date: 1 Dec 2005 07:11 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 30 Nov 2005 04:25 pm (UTC)Military rule? Like, I quibble with that choice of words because there is a difference between rule and command which I think Caldwell is perfectly capable of respecting. Also, how on *earth* could Caldwell fuck it up more than the combination of Weir and Sheppard has already done?
And since when does Rodney kick sense into anyone? I know for certain he's never done it to Weir and no one except Teyla seems capable of making Sheppard do anything he's not inclined to do.
is he going to listen to zelenka? is zelenka going to be capable of holding the science mission together, keeping the city running and fighting for civilian interests? right.
Um. Yeah, actually. And probably better than McKay because Zelenka a) doesn't go offworld and probably has a better sense of what's going on in the city and b) he hasn't alienated half the people in the city. And yes, I do actually think Caldwell would listen to Zelenka if Zelenka said something like, "That is a bad idea because X, Y, and Z." Caldwell isn't a dictator -- he listens to Sheppard when Sheppard has good ideas, he listens to McKay when McKay has good ideas, etc. It's just that convincing Caldwell to do something largely requires a good argument and sense instead of a juvenile hissy fit, which is how Weir handles him.
(no subject)
Date: 1 Dec 2005 10:28 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 1 Dec 2005 05:34 pm (UTC)