(no subject)

[cimorene]

the shrink is quite fixated on the idea that people i know online aren't "real" somehow. not "real" interaction. ok, not face-to-face, no. i was forced to play the Dippy Pop Psych Sesame Street cards to change the subject ("but i can't just REPLACE my friends because everyone is SPECIAL"). my god, woman. oh well. she isn't going to change my mind. lala.

Comments

[kriski.livejournal.com]

what does she mean, we're not real? we think, therefore we are...no?

i'm following your ongoing reports from the couch with a mixture of amusement, sympathy and annoyance...i'm a psych minor, if that explains anything.

not real..hmpf!

[cimness.livejournal.com]

well, lack of body language. she has... some sort of point. you can't get body language through im. but. fuck. who needs body language? at least, ALL the time?

she is internet-illiterate. that's the real problem.

[loreleif.livejournal.com]

Not to mention the large numbers of people who have trouble in face-to-face relationships precisely because they can't read or interpret body language. And when was the last time someone not used to online communication used emoticons or words like "sigh" in a paper letter to help you figure out how they're feeling?

Every mode of communication has advantages and pitfalls. I wonder if your shrink would argue that TV and movies aren't real, because you can always go see a play? Idiot.

I'd also suggest, if it's an option, to get a new shrink. If she's going to be demeaning, you'll never get anything useful done.

[j-s-r.livejournal.com]

No! Don't let her! Cause...we're all cool?

And funny. I was quite certain that we were real. But I could be wrong.

[dantana.livejournal.com]

We're not real?!?!?
*pinches arm* Ow! Wait that's for dreams. Sheesh. But, if I'm not real, does it matter if I hurt or not? I sure as hell know it matters to me. Sorry, I'm babbling in your journal. I'll stop now.
/

[cimness.livejournal.com]

aw. don't hurt!

[silviakundera.livejournal.com]

<- is real!

Bitch!

[strangelette.livejournal.com]

I was just hit with a similar argument in a class. The prof was making the point that writing on a computer was somehow less genuine than writing on paper because we have an actual connection to the paper and the computer is somehow artificial.

I've come to the decision that we're about to hit one hell of a generational gap. I think that quite a few of the things that are found to be true for people who have not been on a computer/been interacting online their entire lives are going to be found to be absolutely false for the younger generations who have grown up in front of a computer and grown up online. I don't want to say that all of the research is incorrect; I just want a younger generation of researchers to study a younger generation of subjects and see what happens.

[cimness.livejournal.com]

amen.

..less genuine?

[sirndipiti.livejournal.com]

..sure, an' the prof was just bein' a devil's ass -- just trying to provoke actual thinking -- doncha think?

perhaps s/he is just waiting for direct mind/machine interface for that feeling of actual connection??

[kaakao.livejournal.com]

this made me think about ONE MIND. I mean one mind and millions of people. it would be horrible.

[tavella.livejournal.com]

The 'online friends are not real' thing just continues to amuse me. I live where I live because of 'online friends', one of my housemates I first met online, probably a dozen of my friends and acquaintances are married or engaged to people they first met online. My best friends hang out together both online and in meatspace, the idea that they are separate... just weird.

I'd go with generation gap.

[ellen-fremedon.livejournal.com]

I am firmly convinced that I do exist.

weird shrinks

[(Anonymous)]

Well gee, let's see, people you meet and socialize with online are just ephemeral, invalid human contacts because:
A) They are people you interact with because you like them, or find them interesting, or share common enthusiasms with them, not because you were assigned by a lottery to live with them.
B) They are people interested enough to get online and interact with others instead of going home and getting hammered on alcohol or narcotics (I'm thinking of people I went to school with).
C) They are people UNAPPROVED by the Amherst authorities of as being appropriate for your age group and of your "quality" (perhaps there's a dark ulterior plan to breed the Super-Amherst next generation? the cim-unit is not responding - it's hard to get cims to breed in captivity! perhaps we can lure her out of her den by offering hamburger patties in the shape of bamboo blossoms...)
D) The WINNER - you have to get to know these people on-line first, instead of having immediate, casual sexual contacts or going to beer bashes and getting sweatily drunk - that was about the extent of most social activity when I was an undergraduate.
E) All of the above.

On the bright side: I don't think your shrinks are actually going to drive you insane, and the time you spend with them prevents them from harming someone else.

The unreal K'Sal (who is not because she thinks, but does think that Ellen is because she thinks.)

yeah but

[(Anonymous)]

of course the online friends are real, but i'm sure the shrink's point is that it can't be the only human contact cim has. since her roommates are never in the room and her interests are limited to solitary activities confined to her bedroom(writing homosexual fiction, reading sci fi novels and taking "what utensil am i?" quizzes), perhaps the shrink is worried that cim is becoming a hermit, something i'm sure you all will agree is not healthy.

Re: yeah but

[(Anonymous)]

Well, the "hermit" implies that you don't believe that the online contacts are real human interaction. Which is the point that people have been trying to make - they are. Cim the contradancing hermit...

Of course you can't touch someone online - that's the point. But cim knows that. The online community is like the groups that people join on campus. It's like the a writer's workshop for instance - you get to deal with people who are interested in the same things you are.

If cim's shrink is being this dismissive of who cim really is, the shrinking's not going to work. Because she's not writing homosexual fiction - she's writing slash, she's writing fanfiction, she's written other types and will write many others. And writing isn't an "interest" or a hobby for here - it's a focus, something that she takes very seriously, works at in a disciplined fashion, something that she wants to do in the future.

This is like criticizing Bruce Jenner for spending too much time jogging or Britanny Spears for taking singing lessons. You may not like the activity itself, but it's ignoring reality to belittle it.

The other problem is that cim has a strong objective sense of truth - she knows that these friends or acquaintances are real and won't be able to accept a denial of this reality as a basis for changing her behavior.

K'Sal