Race Fail in RL

[cimorene]

Me: She's screaming again.
Chav Girl: Yeah, she's been doing it on and off all day. If the gypsies came by right about now I know what I'd sell!
Me: ... o_O

Me: I just need some of your potatoes!
Substitute: She's taking our food.
Me: I estimated the amounts for each class wrong.
Amber: Then you're an Indian giver, haha!
Me: ... o_O

Maybe it should be renamed from Daycare Dykey to Daycare Did I Honestly Just Hear That Out Loud.

Comments

[margueritem.livejournal.com]

O.O *facepalm*

What does "Indian giver" mean? Indians are not supposed to be able to count? Disparity in the division of riches?

[cimness.livejournal.com]

"Indian giver" means giving something and then taking it back, but how it is supposed to relate to Indians I honestly don't know. In fact, I'm not even sure if it refers to Indians or Native Americans.

[thesewordselope.livejournal.com]

I'm fairly certain it refers to Native Americans, but I can't remember why.

[thesewordselope.livejournal.com]

Also, I should finish reading the comments before I open my mouth.

[geeklite.livejournal.com]

You never know. I might buy a screaming child!

[cimness.livejournal.com]

I can't believe that happened to me the DAY AFTER watching the Criminal Minds Episode of Infinite Race FAIL (http://brown-betty.livejournal.com/431171.html). My horrified face is strong right now and I just can't... WHAT.

[geeklite.livejournal.com]

You know, I thought of being horrified at that episode but instead I just laughed and laughed at the fail. And told the boything he was lucky that I'm a couple generations away from it all now, otherwise I would have killed his parents and kidnapped him.

And then after that I was still vaguely horrified anyway - for those who aren't a couple generations away from it all.

I adore Criminal Minds generally, but when they get it wrong they get it hell wrong.

[cimness.livejournal.com]

Well, granted, it's SO FAR OUT THERE that in a way, it's kind of funny. But it's funny in a laugh-or-cry way - like the "orcing" thing. You know, that "THERE ARE SERIOUSLY PEOPLE SO BRAINLESS THAT THEY WILL SAY THIS WITH A STRAIGHT FACE?" way.

[anglepoiselamp.livejournal.com]

I kept wanting to make a post about the Criminal Minds fail, but couldn't quite bring myself to articulate my anger.

I guess I've grown up with very mixed feelings towards the Romani. Finns tend to practice a lot of discrimination towards the local minority, and their integration to the main culture has been hugely problematic on both sides. And, uh, sometimes I feel guilty about being part Romani and having no connection to, and too little knowledge of, their culture(s).



PS. When I was maybe two years old or so, an old Romani man lifted me up to sit on the counter of a roadside kiosk and praised my parents for having such a beautiful child. And OMG, then he totally didn't steal me!!!

[emmuzka.livejournal.com]

I use the gipsy thing time to time, and I haven't even thought that it would be indiscriminating towards a race. It's has always been the same level as wondering if a kid is a changeling or threatening to make a pair of mittens out of my cat. And no one is accusing me of discriminating towards fairies... But I see what you mean, it's not good to place groups in the position of thieves and robbers, even if the position is a bit fairy-tale like.

On the other hand, it would be pretty pretentious of me to be all Woe! about me using the term, as I willingly walk by and ignore Romanian gypsy beggars every day.

[cimness.livejournal.com]

Yes, many people are used to using racist slurs against the Roma, Native Americans, and many other groups without considering (or even knowing) the racist meaning of them. The fact that most of the people didn't think about the implication or do it on purpose doesn't make it any less offensive. The Roma are widely stereotyped still and racist insults for them are socially acceptable which have fallen out of use for many other groups, like the English "gypped" for "cheated", while "jewed" for "cheated" which was used earlier in the 20th century pretty widely is not.

The reason that I don't find the buying children thing to be all that amusing (even though it is fanciful of course) is the context of the historical stereotype that gypsies would steal children. Just a week ago Criminal Minds had an awful episode about how gypsies choose 10-year-old girls to kidnap and ritually execute their parents, raising them in captivity to be wives for their sons. Clearly the stereotype is not dead.

On the other hand, it would be pretty pretentious of me to be all Woe! about me using the term, as I willingly walk by and ignore Romanian gypsy beggars every day.

Finally, I guess this is a joke? I'm just so confused by the logic and surprised. Are you saying that it would be hypocritical to reject/be shocked by racist slurs against an ethnic group because you don't give money to beggars of that race? Even if you spent gave a lot of money to beggars and actively discriminated against the Roma in your charity, which I seriously doubt you are saying, it would not be strange for you to say "Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that all gypsies are racially or culturally thieves/fond of collecting other people's babies", because perpetuating racist ethnic stereotypes helps reinforce the idea that racism against those groups is acceptable. NOT using the n-word is hardly equivalent to joining the NAACP.

[emmuzka.livejournal.com]

Finally, I guess this is a joke?

No, I think that that is the matter of me not getting my message through using English. The thing is that these things are "nice" to talk about. The concept of racism living in our everyday language is truly interesting. "Hey, I didn't notice this and that, I'll change the way of how I speak now, thanx, bai." It is easy to forget with all this academic and nice rhetoric that the problem is in the "actual world" and not curable with (only) talking about the etymology of the term "gypsied". So does it matter if I'm like, "how unthoughtful of me, that saying is actually racist", if the same day I'll get my racism strengthened by my fear towards beggars who happen to be gypsies? I guess in the long run it does, but if the conversation stays in the level of "oh, how interesting", then it doesn't.

On the other hand, there is a point when a saying can loose its cultural meaning that makes the saying racist or even any way symbolical. Like, if I say that I will crucify someone, it has nothing to do with jews crucifying jesus anymore. It just means the same as "I will bite your head off." Of course this is not the case with the gypsy saying (And what the hell the CSI writers were thinking?), but it does explain why people use slurs so thoughtlessly.

EDIT: Criminal minds and not CSI, "gypped" and not "gypsied". Sorry!

[dreamnnightmare.livejournal.com]

"Indian giver" does refer to Native Americans. It's an old saying that probably goes back to the days when the United States government was actively invading/occupying/destroying native American societies. I don't know whether it was part of a disinformation campaign by the powers that be in the United States, a racial stereotype with no basis whatsoever, or something that had some kernel of fact that started it off. In any case, the United States government was far more characterized by giving things and then taking them back than any of the Native American groups it dealt with. In fact, our government almost universally took back what it pretended to give (except infected blankets) if it gave anything in the first place. That was still going on within my lifetime, and may still be. the best thing you can say in the defense of the US is that we are a young country and most other countries did even worse things when they were young. Some are still doing worse things.

When the phrase "Indian giver" was invented most Americans knew little or nothing about the Indian subcontinent.

[cimness.livejournal.com]

...But British people did and they could have invented the term, theoretically, I mean.

[dreamnnightmare.livejournal.com]

True. And I could be wrong, but I'm not, no I'm not.



well, could b

[brownbetty]

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