Approaching Nero Wolfe

[cimorene]

I haven't abandoned my plans to read Leckie, but I haven't bought the book yet and I have a whole pile of books already in my possession which I will be reading until I've got extra money to waste.

And as part of that reading, I've just read the first Nero Wolfe book.

• Archie is such an unusual name within my lifetime that I can't help literally picturing comics Archie, in flat color newspaper format.


• The unfortunate signs of its era are surprisingly few, and it's arguably so far less sexist than Christie, but the male ensemble cast is extremely wearing.


• Given what I've seen so far I'm astonished at the quantity of fanfic on AO3 (which I haven't examined in more detail, however). Maybe the male ensemble explains it alone, but it doesn't seem very shippable and there's already been some subtle homophobia. Apparently there was a TV show, which I'd never heard of. Was it a cult favorite maybe? It's got nearly 2/3 as many works as Poirot!

Comments

[princessofgeeks]

There were in fact two TV shows, one period and one set in the 1960s. A bunch of them are on You Tube.

The books are really easy to read because of the Archie voice.

There are a couple of slashable pairs and I believe the slash is mostly based on the books, not the shows.

Soon there is one regularly appearing woman who is great, and there are a lot of interesting and fun female clients and female antagonists.

I love the books for the narrative voice, the humor, the interesting plots, the quirkiness of Nero Wolfe, and above all the fact that it's a love letter to NYC.

It is rather dated, but I have thoroughly enjoyed them. They were my comfort reads the summer of 2018 when I was gathering my courage to separate from my husband and they fit the bill splendidly. I am embarrassed about the size of my Amazon Kindle bill that year, but hey.

Enjoy!!! I would love to talk about the plots... the writing is so vivid and I remember a bunch of the books in detail. Some of them I read twice.

[cimorene]

Have you watched the British detective show [Inspector] Lewis? It's the sequel to the popular 80s show called Morse, and it has a memorable early episode which I suspect of being influenced by book 2 ( I'm 30% done with it).

[princessofgeeks]

I have not! I will look for it.

[cimorene]

I've read three of them now and I can see attachment between Archie and Nero and some affection for Fritz now. Saul only just received any characterization, so I have to assume he's played by someone hot or else there will be a lot more interaction with Archie later to account for the popularity of that ship.

Also the misogyny and racism have gotten a great deal thicker in the last two books, although sometimes I think the writer is putting them in for realistic characterization and not reflections of his opinion...

[stranger]

Oh, yeah, Saul Panzer. In the books he's described as not conventionally attractive, but he's a sort of Raffles-neutral-good operative who can find anything, legal or illegal, and talk to people so they'll trust him, and so on. So, a hot actor could fit the part. Also, Archie trusts him absolutely.

In the books he's usually one of a trio with Fred and Orrie, but clearly the leader. It's entirely possible that a screen version would play him up and leave the other two in the background.

[princessofgeeks]

There is a lot more Saul later and yes, there is quite a bit of Saul/Archie written. I do think it was from the books and not the movies.

Yeah, the racism and misogyny is definitely there. Wolfe himself is an utter misogynist although mostly it's played for laughs and as a contrast to Archie's firtatiousness.

[cimorene]

So far Archie's attitude to women, while not perhaps unrealistic, is actually irritating me more, mainly because it comes up more often.

I'm not saying I want to ship Fritz, but I'm a little surprised how little of him there is in the fanfic because so far he definitely has more presence than Saul or any of the other second-tier characters... at this point he's probably next after Cramer.

[princessofgeeks]

Saul will become way more important later as well as Archie's obvious total trust and reliance on him.

Have fun!!! I will read any amount of reviews/meta you post about it.

[stranger]

I read all the books in my teens-20s, and refreshed some of them later. The all-male household is distinctly homosocial, though I didn't pick up a slash vibe from the series at the time. Mostly between the lines, it's evident that Wolfe had an eventful life in his youth, in war-torn Montenegro and Europe, and that he fell in love with... gourmet cuisine. The connections between him and the others in the house are expressed in orchids, food, and logical detecting, in all cases so intensely that I could imagine slash that symbolizes those relationships, but in canon the relationships are shown as so cerebral that it's hard to see them as sexual. Maybe it's that whiff of homophobia you mentioned.

Rex Stout, like some other mid-century writers, depicted the sexist culture of the time that had restricted roles for women, but also showed the women as capable, having minds and motives and agency. It's just that they often aren't in the framework at all.

[cimorene]

Yes, and they also have a tendency to insult each other affectionately. Toxic masculinity and all that.

[ilyena_sylph]

I have never gotten into the books, but I love the fairly recent version of the show with Tim Hutton (Nate from Leverage) as Archie... which right there may explain some of the fic!

[cimorene]

Huh, that suggests more recent than the impression I got.

[princessofgeeks]

Tim Hutton as Archie totally didn't work for me, much as I love the actor, mostly because his accent was sooooo awful.

They tried to make him talk like a New Yorker even though in the book it clearly states that Archie still sounds like his Midwestern roots.

[ilyena_sylph]

I guess it was to my advantage I hadn't read them, because I found the accent charming if silly, but if I'd known, boy would I have been furious!

[princessofgeeks]

I'm so glad you enjoyed it!

I was doubly miffed because one, it was a terrible accent attempt, and two, it wasn't necessary OR canon.

:D

Ordinarily Tim Hutton is a YES for me.