cimorene: cartoony drawing of a woman's head in profile giving dubious side-eye (calligraphy)
[personal profile] cimorene
makes my brain itch and hurt in the same way as listening to norwegian and danish - as if it's something i'm capable of learning as i go by actively and constantly making connections, but not something that i already know how to do. this makes sense, because in a way that is how composing in swedish is for me, a process that involves a much finer and more careful and deliberate process of laying out the sentence and searching my vocabulary for words than the process of composition in english, which is lightning-fast and requires no significant reflection.

writing which is in any way artistic or narrative is worse; because the rich wealth of details, of metaphors and evocative little phrases, are all at the tips of my fingers and all in english. inasmuch as all my thoughtprocesses are tied up in language, all are executed in language, i can even be said to know more in english than in swedish; composing in swedish demotes me from a quick, fluent, and articulate user of language to a hesitant and rather error-prone, much quieter and less self-assured person. (in english i am a know-it-all, frequently willing to leap into class discussions even if no one else but the teacher will participate; in swedish i tense in agony, hunting furiously for the correct words to express what i want to say, then hesitate in indecision: can i pronounce everything? does that really mean what i think it means? i hardly ever contribute to class discussions in swedish.)

what i'm writing is a simple descriptive exercise, the sort of thing i frequently do for fun. if it were in english i wouldn't be able to type fast enough, would barely have to think about what i wanted to say; to write in swedish i have laboured for two hours over a single page, constantly rephrasing and referring to the dictionary. my creativity is running up hard against the wall of my language ability and has been stubbing its toes again and again, with increasing force, all evening. after just a few hours of this i am sparking with nervous energy, fidgeting, even becoming angry.

it makes me think that i truly need to practise more, to get better. i think i had better stick to my resolution to speak swedish at home every other day, and read books in swedish (novels, not just course literature). i want to be able to be proud of my language abilities. i want to stop lacking for self-confidence in discussions and having to silence myself when they veer towards debates. i want to be articulate again.

(no subject)

Date: 26 Jan 2007 09:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] syredronning.livejournal.com
A tip: When I'm writing in another language and don't know a word, I write the missing word in brackets and research them when going over the text later. Constantly looking up the dict is really breaking the flow.

The good thing about writing in another language is IMO that one is writing "straighter", in a leaner language. But my stories are definitely different depending on which language I wrote them in. And translations don't really fix that difference.

(no subject)

Date: 27 Jan 2007 12:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com
the reason i don't really do this is that i want to connect the language directly to concepts, not through an extra layer of english translation in my head. even though my ability to compose is slower and less fluid in swedish than i might be if i wrote in english and then struggled to translate, the limits are still good in a way because they keep me to expressions i'm more confident of and prevent me from accidentally saying something other than what i think i'm saying. because i don't want to get into the habit of mixing in thoughts in english when i am thinking in swedish, i don't pepper the text with words in brackets unless i can't avoid it, such as when i can't reach a dictionary.

(no subject)

Date: 26 Jan 2007 09:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oneko-briar.livejournal.com
I have a Bisayan (dialect) book of poetry; one page is in Bisayan and the page adjacent to it is in Tagalog (official language). I'm not proficient in both languages but every day or every other day I read out loud a page in Bisayan and its Tagalog equivalent. I only know bits and pieces of each language but I love the sound, in this case the sounds I make reading the poems out loud, even though my accents are probably horrendously bad. The language of the poetry is so deep, which is another stumbling block. I get excited just recognizing one word's meaning at a time. It's like when I see Spanish billboards or spanish handouts, but even less so because I am more apt to understand the written Spanish phrases that I can find in my environment versus the depth of this nearly undecipherable poetry that I am trying to understand. My sucky spanish (un)skills are better than my knowledge (working or otherwise) of the language of my forbears!

I read a phrase in Bisayan, if I am lucky I can understand one word. If I am very lucky, I can understand two.

I read the same phrase in Tagalog, and if I am lucky I can understand another word which is a different word from the Bisayan word and which deepens or actually just begins a concept of what that phrase is about.

Rarely, though it happens, I can get four words, two in Bisaya, two in Tagalog, the Tagalog different from the Bisayan.

Very very rarely I can understand an entire phrase! And this makes me really happy.

I want to be articulate again, too, but I just mean that in the common sense and not relating to any languages I am trying to understand.

But applied linguistics sure is fun.

(no subject)

Date: 27 Jan 2007 12:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com
yeah, there's something cool about funky dialects, isn't there? if you're more familiar with the main variety the dialect will always seem exotic and fun. and, too, languages seem some how titillating, full of hidden mystery, when you only understand bits and pieces, don't you think? swedish is still pretty exciting for me, even though i understand most of it now. but danish or norwegian are delightful and kind of adorable (which is more like reading in a dialect).

(no subject)

Date: 27 Jan 2007 05:35 am (UTC)
ext_150: (Default)
From: [identity profile] kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com
While reading books will definitely help to some degree, I think really only practicing speaking and writing will really develop that part, because reading is more passive? You can absorb and know the words you're reading, but they still won't be there when you're reaching for words while writing/speaking. Even with my degree of fluency in Japanese, I am much slower writing in it than in English, because I just don't use that part of it as much. So while I can easily reand and understand a novel 100%, I still feel nervous about writing in Japanese and obsessively recheck stuff again and again before sending it out.

(no subject)

Date: 27 Jan 2007 01:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cimness.livejournal.com
yeah, i'm sure speaking will be more important, but i'll need to read as well to develop my vocabulary, i think. there's a much wider range of words in written language than i encounter in casual conversation.

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